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So after much consideration, some 'hmmmmm'ing and much loss of sleep, I've finally decided to start this.
Except I don't really have much to say today... didn't have much to say in my first blog post either.... not a very good start is it?
hmmmm... just realised I haven't had lunch yet....
ok bye
Nothing to say? That's so unlike you dek
yeah.... something abt today me thinks...
It's not like you're very chatty either!
Why did I have to sign in again to post a message?
I've nothing to say, but have a nice day. 
You had to sign in again? Are you serious?
When you sent me an invite saying "see I have a Tangle" I immediately thought what the heck good is "Nowhere Man's" directory of everything good on Tangler if it misses the most important Tangle of all?
Then I see you only started it 2 hours ago... so it hasn't even shown up in the results of the Tangler search yet.... I guess I'll have to cut the guy some slack.
Glad to see you here.... are you going to embed a topic from here in you splashy new Blog?
ps... when do we start talking about food???? 
hahahahaah Poor Nowhere's Man!
Embed? Lemme work on making the blog show the posts first!
And I just had lunch, so it's gonna be time for coffee soon
(I was actually planning to let it be and let Nowhere's Man come across it himself and surprise him, but then I semi-let the cat out of the bag, and honestly, I couldn't wait 10 hrs
)
ahhm
It is already Posted in a "Knot" by Nowhere Man....
and he was pleasantly surprised.
ooh... dek's place!
can't wait to hear all the amazing, insightful stuff you have ready
Here's some insight for ya - there's nothing better than a mocha in the afternoons
@ Nowhere Man - Glad to know! hehehe
You had to sign in again? Are you serious?
Yep, the edit box was greyed out and there was a message to "Join Tangler to post a message" or "Sign in" (which I did).
Was I the only one that happened to??
No problem for me... and I don't get out much. (and I didn't even get an invite)
I'm assuming you were already signed in andro? (Cos you must have been to receive my invite?)
Yeah, I was already signed in. 
That is very odd andro... Please let me know if it happens again?
Meanwhile, I'll investigate it further
Yeah, well it's fine now, 'twas just the first time.
Cool
Just wanted to say Hello and that i'm still alive.. i'll get back to Tangler soon..
It's abt time funky!!! 
Oh, and hello!
heheh
HiYall
So where's the coffee Caffy?
Just finished the last sip
Damm.
I'll have to get some myself then.
LOL LOL LOL 
Oh that was really nice, someone just brought me one
Oh!! How nice!!!
Maybe if I wish hard enough next time, someone will bring me one!
Hi Dek. Nice place you have here. Now where's the beer you promised me for coming here...?
Are you suggesting I bribed you for your participation?
That calls for a beer
here,
Whoops.... squirrel got to it first
I rest my case...
Tho in my defence, I had the idea before you started yours!
Hello
Heya Ruski! You made it
Yo! Glad you joined the bandwagon, but I think I will give it a couple of months before I start my own Hmmm now what to talk about!
Yeah... the stress of it all!
Why is this the only Group that the dekrazee1 is a regular poster to that hasn't been diverted to the discussion of food?
Perhaps there's an opening for you Kaz22.
hmmm when are we going to lunch today Dek
Just for you Bri!
Barley Sandwich Time?
hahahahaha
Soon Kaz, soon....
Barley Sandwich???
Are you serious?
Time for you to learn some Canadian Slang (I don't think its used in Australia):
Barley Sandwich = Beer
OHHHHHHhhhhhh
Where does the sandwich come in?
Barley sandwich Beer for lunch. Also called a slurp sandwich. (from the Modern Drunkard Magazine)
(so I guess it is used outside of Canada)
no sandwich at all...just a good cool one.... why? who knows but its been part of the vernacular going back before my teenage years at least.
Ahhhh....
hmmm, we're planning to go to a Japanese Restaurant... and they do have beers there...
I find it very funny terminology!
And we have food in Dek's Tangle
My job is done... I'm off for dinner.
heheheh Terrible, Bric
Saki with your lunch is probably better ... leave the beer for Beer- thirty.
Yesh Sir!
hmm saki not a fan but beer-thirty is not far off my friend
Though I love the Japanese Beer Kirin
@Kaz
Ewwwwwww....Kirin
Ever heard of the Kirin pavement?
What's that?
It should have been Kirin Paving. Sorry
It's the Friday night/Saturday morning mess left by Japanese Salaymen on their way home.
HAHAHAHA Oh dear
They are known to leave rivers of the stuff.....
Though I understand things are changing these days.
Yeah, I was watching something (can't remember what) which was talking abt the alcohol issue in Korea and they were trying to tackle it
Kirin, Asahi, Tiger... I may not remember much about the coutries, but ask me about the sport, the bars or the beers and I'm with you Funnily enough I even developed a taste for Bud Light at one point...
"I even developed a taste for Bud Light at one point..."
You are a sick, sick man in need of help.
oooh.... I miss Tiger on tap!
It's been too long since I had one
I saw these and thought of dek...
Not that i think she drinks a lot of coffee........
HAHAHAHAH Excellent Sir Montague! Dek loves it!
Back in the day when mobiles had yellow backlights and black text and were used for one purpose, I had one of those images on mine - it said --> 'Powered by Caffiene'
I found a mug for you as well...
ohhh I need me one of those!
hahahaha Love the mug SM!
This might explain a few things...
Buggerrrrrr..... I can't figure out what it says at the end!
Did you click on the last word to find out what the punch line is? If not go back and do so 
Oh! Okay... hang on
HAHAHAHAHAHA
Love the laugh!!
I will never get coffee out of a machine again!
Better be leary of some Gourmet Coffees as well ...$75 per quarter-pound for coffee beans
gross!! All I have to say is WHY?
One of the "high-end" coffee shops here in town was peddling the stuff (I think even a bit more expensive that that) ... but they gave you a free t-shirt with an illustration of the 'fermentation' process so you could brag you'd drunk the stuff.
I have to say, I've read so much abt it, I'm really intriguied.... i wouldn't mind trying it one day
The process of digestion leaves the pulp with a unique taste ... its all washed of course.... but I'm too cheap to buy it.
I'm not sure what my excuse might be if I was somewhere and it was offered free....
You're not a charity case?
noooo I wouldn't do it! I mean I love coffee but I don't love it that much!
Charity case maybe... basket case I trust not
haha nice
Maaaaaaan.... I'm bored....
I HATE WEEKENDS!
I'm looking for someone to hang out the laundry.
haha good luck with that on Ruski!
hehehehe this is the time you start training the kids to do chores
Hey dek!!
Heya Morgan!
I'm testing something -
Does anyone else see that ^^?
yes I do!
Does it play for ya?
*fingers crossed*
I've been searching for a way to share music on tangler for soooo long!
Just had a look at it on Mick's comp.... you need to be logged in to be able to play it
BUGGER
yep it plays for me. What you mean logged in?
It plays for you? Are you a member of Finetune?
It plays not for me.
hmmm.... okay.... back to searching then
yeah I'm not a member but still playing for me!
hmmmm.... can others please have a look and lemme know? I need to get to the bottom of this
OK works now.
Oh really??? YIPPEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE
lol is that chewbacca on caffeine? ..
hehehehe I have no idea....
But that gif makes me happy
hi everyone
Hi again
hello!
hey
Aloha!
Hi
SWARM!
Annyong haesayo
umm... actually it was a bit chilly
(in CA)
hahahah
So funny
@Marty - it's scorching hot in Sydney
Like a Dec day
Feels like I should be celebrating christmas or something
heh.. Christmas during summer, you crazy Australians
The only way to truly celebrate
Christmas needs to be cold.
I promise you dek, that if you ever go to the colder bits of the northern hemisphere at Crimbo', you will know that it feels "right" "normal" and "correct" that Christmas is cold, no matter what you have been used to.
I disagree... I've had white Christmas with the hot roast, and all the English trimmings, I've had white Christmas Korean style with Bulgogi and kimchi jigae, and I've had the traditional Australian summer Christmas with cold meets and seafood...
By far, the best is the great Aussie summer Christmas with BBQ hot meats, cold meats, salads and seafood (I'll take 1kg of prawns over a hot roast any day)
@pseudyx: I have no idea how you can think like that, unless you were naturally prejudiced in favour of what you knew. Christmas is a Northern Winter festival, based on millenia of tradition. The very essence of this Northern Winter tradition is embedded in the festival itself: the red, the green, the gold, the lights, the candles, the songs, the sleigh, a king of the festival, be it Santa or Saturn, excessive consumption of food and booze.....it's all a midwinter festival.
Its celebration in the Southern Summer is an accident of the seasons and the fact of European settlement of Australia.
I am curious:when did you have the "White Christmas"? And where? Was it in Britain? And if you don't mind my asking: how old were you?
JR - I have spent a few christmases in the cold.... It just is more fun celebrating in the warm than in the cold!
As pseudyx has said
(just saw that
)
Dek - I am sure it is for some, but I can honestly, truly say, I have yet to meet, in person, an Australian, a South African or a Kiwi (I can't comment on any others) who don't think that having experienced it, that Crimbo in Europe is not more "natural". That's not to say it's bad anywhere else, it just seems to be the experience of folks I've met and spoken to.
I'll give you an example of the less than obvious in this respect: I was, some time ago, chatting to a Spanish-Australian and an Italian-Australian, both born and brought up in Australia who had always known an Italian or Spanish-Australian Christmas as celebrated within the family in Oz, but on each of the occasions they went to their ancestral nations and experienced Christmas in Spain and Italy, they both agreed it seemed more "natural" or "normal" and that they found it more enjoyable. I mention this to say it's not just an English or British Christmas that is the supposed "bench mark" I am alluding to, because Christmas in Italy or Spain is very different to that of the UK.
1 vote here for the wet.
I think we've had perhaps 2 white christmas days in my life (lots of near misses, but in Vancouver we don't get all that many days on the ground). I've travelled a fair amount, and while I make sure never to be on the road right at Christmas, I've been to Australia, Chile, Hawaii, Arizona, and South Africa in the run up period... It did jar my sensibilities, in Chile especially, to see "Santa Claus" in the heat of the mid summer sun (while I was just approaching Winter mode). Arizona was a special case -- just bizarre.
So I'll go with a winter festival on this one... one more theft of the Christian Religions to steal "pagan" and naturalist philosophies' celebaration -- this one fairly successful!
Yes, I understand that....
I wonder how much of it is exposure to Northern christmases via TV and movies.
Those used to be my ideas about Christmas too. A 'proper christmas' I used to call it. But since I've settled in here, and had a few good celebrations, I'd say both have their pros.
I once had the chance to celebrate Diwali in India, and it was the best one of my entire life! Sooooo much fun with cousins and fireworks.
After all, you can have any weather, but if you don't have loved ones to celebrate with, it's not gonna be much fun is it?
@JR: "I have no idea how you can think like that, unless you were naturally prejudiced in favour of what you knew" - The wonder of personal preference. I am not prejudice, don't get me wrong, I enjoyed white Christmas. It was in Manchester on 3 occasions 16, 18, and 23 yrs old. At my Aunts house, with full traditional feast. It was good food, and fun. But Australian Christmas will always mean more to me.
Sure there is much tradition steeped into the festive event, be it the ancient tradition of St Nicholas of Myra, or earlier the pagan winter festival. Or pre Christian folk lore and early Christian traditions of the birth of Jesus. But as more of the western world was colonized the traditions and lore was added to and changed. And Christmas figures were popularized like Santa Clause, through pop culture and advertising such as the Coca-Cola company, and even earlier the White Rock Beverages company in the British colonies of North America.
I wouldn't say the 'very essence' and 'red green and gold' in the same sentence especially if you are talking of Santa, as many of the traditional themes of Christmas have changed through colonization of different areas of the globe, and as I said the popularization of the Jolly Fat man dressed in Red and White, as well as the addition of Mrs Clause, invented by Katherine Lee Bates in the poem "Goody Santa Claus on a Sleigh Ride" from pop culture of early British America.
Though some elements of Santa Claus and the modern Christmas Day have Christian origins, the event and figures of, have become a secular representation of Christmas, with a materialist focus that present-receiving gives to the holiday.
As you yourself said about your Spanish and Italian friends "they went to their ancestral nations and experienced Christmas in Spain and Italy, they both agreed it seemed more "natural" or "normal"" But the Christmas traditions of Spain and Italy are again very different form the traditional English event. Added to by the local traditions and lore and the integration of British colonies tradition.
Australia may not be my ancestors home going back generations, but it is My Home, and even though my family do not reach more than 4 generations in Australia the traditions have adapted to local environment, which is a melting pot of many different cultural traditions.
To me Christmas means getting together with most of my family direct and extended, and enjoying seeing and spending time with them, because it is usually the only time of year I have a chance to see them. And although we all have your differences, and our own families, it is the best time of year when we can get together and put aside our different opinions and traditions from different parts of the world, and share a feast of food, traditionally in our family our feast is a mixture of English, German, Scottish, Korean (seafood & Rice/vegetarian) and local food (growing up on the coast is seafood). So as I said traditionaly Cold meats like cold roast pork and beef, lots of seafood; muscles, oysters, crab, loads of prawns, and BBQ’d sausages, potatoes, onions, with cold salads; green leaf, chickpea, seaweed, potato.
We enjoy the day together by having breakfast on the deck in the warm sun, then moving to the lounge room to exchange gifts with each other, then moving into a 3 or 4 hour feast of eating, drinking, and sharing stories from the year. After which the children go out to play in the yard while we adults rest our full bellies with cold bear/spirits in hand in the shade. Then in the afternoon we all get together for (depending on who’s house we are at) a swim in the pool with water sports, or a game of cricket / soccer in the yard, or a mixture of both. After which we move back into the shade continuing our conversations from the day, with drinks and snacks (lollies, and savouries) until Grandmother gets up and declares dinner, whereby we all move back into the dining room and continue to eat the Christmas feast, followed by Ice-cream, Christmas pudding, rice-pudding, jelly, trifle, pavlova and fruit platter.
We continue into the night until we are all too full and too tired to continue, so we end the night, by all heading home (or where we are staying)… Only to get back together the next day to continue feasting for my Uncles Birthday, and enjoying the sun together in the afternoon at the beach, or out shopping in town at the boxing day sales.
That is Christmas to me. No ancient tradition, other than sharing a meal and getting together to enjoy each others company, and giving gifts to one and other.
You might think that even the giving of gifts is a tradition from Christmas at this event, yes you are right… but also, whenever my family get together (on the rare occasional planned holiday) the exchange of gifts happens there too… So is it Christmas or Family tradition???
[edit: Edited for grammatical and spelling mistakes]
That too me is far greater than Christmas in the snow... The feeling of the sun on your back with the cool water lapping your skin, drink in hand as you sit beside the pool, belly full, sharing stories and jokes with family from distant locations come together to spend time in one place, all sharing the same sentiment of 'being together' and knowing that we all have common Grandparents, great Grandparents or great great Grandparents.
Not prejudiced, but preference, for spending time in the warm sun. Being active as apposed to spending most of the time in-doors with the occasional venture out into the snow (or wet) to play, while being uncomfortable rugged up from neck to foot.... Give me boardshorts by the pool over rugged up from head to toe in the snow any day.
I concur pseudyx!
I enjoy snowboarding and skiing, but thats a mid year event when I'm not so stuffed full of food that I can barely move.
I wouldn't say the 'very essence' and 'red green and gold' in the same sentence especially if you are talking of Santa
I wasn't talking about Santa. I don't think I mentioned him once. The red, the green and the gold (representing light) are all pagan traditions that come out of Europe. The tradition being that you bring greenery, coloured fruits and berries and light into the home at the midwinter.
All of the trappings of Christmas, no matter what your preferences for where you spend it, even Santa, who incidentally and contrary to the urban-myth, in his present form predates Coca-Cola by about 100 years, all of these originate in Europe. A Europe that happens to be cold and wet at the time of this festival.
Never-the-less, I fully appreciate your preferences for where you spend it.
"Santa, who incidentally and contrary to the urban-myth, in his present form predates Coca-Cola by about 100 years" re: St Nicholas of Myra, the primary inspiration of Santa, He was a 4th century Christian bishop... White Rock Beverages company was first to start using Santa Clause as the man dress all in red and white in advertising many years before Coca-cola company.
Sure modern historical Christmas tradition is European borrowing much from Germanic, Dutch, Netherlands, Belgium, and Austrian folklore, all of witch celebrated Christmas in the winter. However the tradition and folklore from these European countries have nothing to do with the winter months where the "very essence" as you say, was in the tradition of spreading Christian faith, 'Giving' to others, and remembering the saints who started these traditions: St Nicholas (Amsterdam, Turkey, Russia), St Basil (Greek) and St Martin (Netherlands, Belgium)... And at the root of all these saints, the birth of Jesus.
"The red, the green and the gold (representing light) are all pagan traditions" - This is true (I know you know, you said it ). What many people don't know is that Jesus birth date is not actually 25th December (winter). The Bible places Jesus' birth on the 15th day of the seventh Jewish month during Sukkot, the Feast of Tabernacles. This is based on the time when Zechariah, father of John the Baptist, was ministering in the temple, and received an announcement from God of a coming son. The Bible states that Zecariah's term of ministry was in the "eighth course of Abia", a period dated according to Hebrew calendar in the Old Testament. This places Jesus date of birth in October (warmer!! 
).
The reason the Christian tradition of Jesus birth is celebrated in December, 2 months later, is due to the existing pagan traditions of Sol Invictus, Yule or any of many winter festivals depending on region. And the Churches creation of Christmas celebration in order to entice pagans to convert to Christianity without losing their own existing celebrations.
So I would say no, the 'essence' of Christmas - "Christ's mass" - has nothing to do with winter other than the incorporation of pagan traditional winter festival. But in Australia we don't have a lot of the winter festival traditions of Yule or Saturnalia because December is in summer... We have our own traditions, modern traditions, much like each of the European counties developed as Christianity spread and overtook their existing festivals.
To me summer Christmas feels right, and the true "essence" of Christmas, Christ's Birth. The Bible says that shepherds spent the night outdoors with their flocks when Jesus was born... You wouldn't be able to spend the night out doors during winter
"Never-the-less, I fully appreciate your preferences for where you spend it." - Cool, yeah... as I said, just personal preference
You wouldn't be able to spend the night out doors during winter
It's not too bad at night time around the Nazereth area in October. Although I haven't taken into account the global warming factor which means it might have been a lot colder back then.
hmm.. there was a warm period across the Middle Ages, but a cold period before that.. not sure of the start/end dates of each one so it could be either, or before them both and something else
Thanks for clearing that up SK
no problem, anything I can do to add clarity
In other news, I found an approximate temperature graph for the last 2000 years and at 0 it was an average of 1/4 of a degree cooler than it is now
maybe a little more than 1/4, somewhere between 1/4 and 1/2 anyway
So unless we are talking about long term damage to perma-frost or something of that ilk, the difference between 15 celcius and 14.5 celcius is minimal, especially to a human body covered with the kind of clothing you'd expect a shepherd or wise man to be wearing on such nights....
@pseudyx
"Santa, who incidentally and contrary to the urban-myth, in his present form predates Coca-Cola by about 100 years" re: St Nicholas of Myra, the primary inspiration of Santa, He was a 4th century Christian bishop... White Rock Beverages company was first to start using Santa Clause as the man dress all in red and white in advertising many years before Coca-cola company.
Thanks for that. But I was aware.
------------------------------
In the early 1820’s Clement Moore describes St. Nicholas as dressed in a fur hat and suit, with rosy dimpled cheeks and a red cherry nose. His face was broad with a droll little mouth and a snow-white beard. St Nicholas was chubby and plump with a little round belly that shook like a bowlful of jelly. It is Moore's description of Santa that we most often think of today. Up to this point his physical appearance were open to individual interpretations as well as the colors of his suit. Clement Moore also tells us the names of his reindeer. Select the following link to read Clement Moore's Christmas Poem - "Twas the Night before Christmas" The Christmas Story to find out their names.
In 1821, the first Santa Claus pictures were illustrated along with a poem titled “The Children’s Friend, A New-Year’s Present to the Little Ones from Five to Twelve” gave us one of the earliest images of Santa when it was published along with eight color lithographs. One of the lithograph illustrated him dressed in a red suit that was not anything like a suit of clothing an American might be wearing, nor like a flowing robe as Saint Nicolas might wear.
In 1837 Robert Weir an art teacher at West Point painted the first American portrait. He posed him wearing a stocking hat and short suit as he started to climb into a chimney with a sack overflowing with Christmas gifts as described in Moore‘s poem. Along with the stocking hat and short suit Weir added a long clay pipe and a red cape edged in fur to his character.
------------
As a Christian festival of course it has nothing to do with the winter. But as you know this celebration has been overlaid onto an older pagan festival, and as you should know it has precious little to do with the birth of Christ anymore.
Thanks for the blurb on Clement Moores St. Nic, that is interesting.
"As a Christian festival of course it has nothing to do with the winter. But as you know this celebration has been overlaid onto an older pagan festival, and as you should know it has precious little to do with the birth of Christ anymore." - Yes very true... Modern Christmas has become the anti "Christ's mass", replaced with materialism and gluttony... I'm not complaining . But I was arguing against "the very essence", "the colder bits of the northern hemisphere at Crimbo', you will know that it feels "right" "normal" and "correct" that Christmas is cold", and "I have no idea how you can think like that".
So now you know how I can think like that ... 'essentially' Christmas is a Christian celebration with much pagan symbolism... as is most Christian culture. But everyone should have their own meaning of Christmas, and if that to you is cold, wet outside and warm inside with all the English trimmings, than thats great, but I wouldn't force on to others that that is the ""right" "normal" and "correct"" way.
- Christmas tradition will be true and right for the individual based on the environment the individual learned the tradition in.
- We should have 2 Christmas holidays in Australia, one in December and one in July
Interesting... I have just had a similar conversation with 2 colleagues of mine, who are from the UK. And they initially agree with you JR that traditional Christmas should be winter... But after our discussion we have come up with 2 things:
Why not have one holiday in Dec for Christmas, and one for Chinese new year, and one for Eid, and one for Diwali, and anything else I've missed out. If planned well, we'll have a constant flow of holidays.
I already celebrate Luna New year (same as Chinese new year) as my partner is Korean... But I like where your going with this
Makes sense doesn't it??
After all, isn't Aust a multi-cultural nation?
yes it certainly is... A multicultural, multireligious nation, who's laws and edicts are based on Christianity... Can you see anything wrong with that??
- Roast Turkey c/w with stuffing
- cranberry sauce (with cointreau and orange zest)
- Mashed Potatoes and Gravey
- Sweet Potato
- Cornbread
- Bread rolls
- Onion crusted green bean casserole
- Brussel Sprouts
- Potato au Gratin
- Jelly Salad
- Waldorf Salad
- pumpkin pie for dessert
- cheese plate with port, tea or coffee to wind down the evening
Well then may I suggest that you start with joining the great Canadian tradition/holiday of the harvest festival and Thanksgiving!
Dinner:
Sleep ... get up the next day and make turkey "bunwiches " from the leftover for lunch.... mmmm good
And its this Sunday !!! (although we're celebrating on the Monday stat holiday)
Now that's a holiday!
It is Thanksgiving already??
Where do I sign up for that dinner?
Yup... we have ours way earlier than they have theirs in the US... (much shorter growing season over much of the country).. So the harvest festival for the Church folk is set to the full Moon of October... and the civic holiday is the Monday closest.
Yeah US thanksgiving is the 3rd Thursday in Nov. I can't wait! My flat mate and I are going to cook up a big dinner and show our Aussie friends what it is all about!!! Ym
re signing up> Well I could eat a little extra on your behalf (no, no, don't protest its no problem I assure you)... or you can be here for this Monday... we've got a smaller crowd than usual ...
hahaah I suppose getting there is sorta out of the question, so you'll just have to eat on my behalf...
Or you could send it my way via very very fast courier
I expect to be setting back my diet by about 3 weeks, but what is life about if not family, love, food and passions of all sorts. ...
eggactly!
I concur!!! It is what makes the world go round!
So if you add the Canadian Thanksgiving, The American Thanksgiving, and Canadian Boxing Day (I don't think you celebrate that do you?) You'll have added 1 holiday to October, 2 days holiday to November (you get Thursday and Firday for US thanksgiving, and 1 holiday in December -- not a bad start at all.
Plus all the food!!!!
I'll have 2 tickets to the thanksgiving feast please 
I just wanna be at a celebration with a feast. Been too long since I did either
We should have a Tangler Feast!
Yeah, we should.... been too long since we had a Team Tangler outing
Ahhhhh.......
@Pseud, When I use terms like "right" "normal" and "correct", especially in a discussion over something like this, and for future reference, unless I am obviously serious, please don't misunderstand them as anything more than overly dramatic (for effect) humorous "demands", as in "How dare you think like that!!!??? You ungrateful swine!!! We give you this tradition and heritage and you ruin it with your good weather" But having said that of course, my more general points about my Spanish and Italian friends, and others, still hold.
Of course, on point one I agree with your colleagues (and you), it's always a personal preference, and Christmas is a time for happiness, I wouldn't step on that. I have to say that point two is a very popular one amongst ex-pats. To many Poms there is an "unnatural" gap in the winter calendar.
I don't know about the East, but Christmas in July is popular here in the West. I think it should be a real festival with at least a day off.
A multicultural, multireligious nation, who's laws and edicts are based on Christianity
Now I am being serious.
How did you come to that? Australia's heritage might be rooted in Christianity, or more properly the history and culture of another "Christian" nation, but it's laws are not. You should remember modern Australia was born in the age of The Enlightenment (1788) when faith was becoming a personal matter. The Constitution guarantees few rights, if any really, but it does make clear the freedom of worship, indicating a secular society.
Or, what laws, that are more Christian than they are Jewish or Islamic, do you mean? Thou shalt not kill, or steal and so on. They are not unique to Christianity.Unless you imagine banking regulation and other more prosaic matters to be Christian?
It's what I hear every time there's a Aussie culture debate. One example - John Howard on gay marriage
Care to elaborate dek?
"When I use terms like "right" "normal" and "correct"..." - Yeah, I didn't take it any more than that. Also for future reference, although sometimes I can become a bit heated in a debate, I never mean personal offense, or do I take others heated comments as personal attack... I just like arguing for argument sake sometimes, as an advocate, or sometimes if I think I have a valid point.
"How did you come to that?" - Essentially law is history, all Australian laws take precedence, historically from England. Some laws have been added to and amended, but the majority of laws within Australia are still rooted in the precedence of colonial and British law.
I agree with you (not a very tight argument hey 
) Australia is a very free country, and the freedom to worship does set that freedom differently to many other countries.
My angle at law was probably a bad example, and I didn't really get the point that I was aiming for out... Although we are free, there is still a large amount of prejudice against non-Christian groups.
Although many people don't like to admit they are prejudice or racist, many people still naturally are.
1. example: Here in Melbourne recently was a shooting... before anything was known of who the shooter was or what the situation was, it was all over the news... Some of the comments I heard from people in my office who pride themselves on not bing prejudice were prejudice comments. Things like, "Do they know what religion the shooter was?" and similar comments.
2. Still many cases involving Aboriginals and robberies, assaults, etc... peoples natural reaction is to think, even before knowing any of the circumstances, that the aboriginal was guilty, when they could have been an innocent victim/witness (this one is actually something that happened to one of my best friends, Phil)
People will remain prejudice, until they see a Man, and not a Muslim Man, or Aboriginal Man, just a Man.
I was referring to Christianity as this nations roots JR
@pseudyx - I hear ya. There's a park here in the city I was told to avoid when I first got here. I didn't pay attention, went and sat there one day, got approached by someone asking for a light, and we started talking. A few of his friends came up to us and we all chatted. It was actually pretty fun! They were good company. But the looks passers-by were giving us.... sheesh!
Oh, and the person who approached me and his friends were Aboriginal.
"Do they know what religion the shooter was?"
Wasn't he a Queenslander?
LOL!!
Terrible Ruski
I think that citizens in a first world country have no excuse to discriminate in any form. They can't use the common "ignorance" excuse.
It's shameful and stupid.
@pseud
The two points you raise (re: the shooting) are not about Christianity (at least I hope not), more they are about simple prejudice and the cultural problems of race.
They are certainly not about law.
The people making these comments might be nominal, or small 'c' christians and in the majority, but that doesn't make Australia and it's laws Christian. It's not a theocracy.
Prejudice by nominal Christians against non-Christians or non-Christian adherents, even with a strong Christian heritage, does not make Australia a Christian nation. In fact I would argue that it is quite the opposite: when did Christianity come to mean prejudice against others who are not Christians?
... The man charged over Melbourne's triple shooting in June has appeared in court over another incident involving firearms.
Hells Angels bikie Christopher Wayne Hudson is accused of firing shots in Kensington and later firing at police in Campbellfield, six days before the fatal shooting.
The 29-year-old is charged with nine offences including recklessly dis