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and received a record fine... but the drivers can continue to race... which yes, it wasn't their fault be should they be allowed to race in unfair equipment?
I know what you're getting at, peter...it should be all or nothing
Whatever the truth or legalities, it will do enormous damage to F1
WHOA...
I don't know what to say... that's amazing
Think McLaren will spit the dummy and withdraw?
I don't think so, but they will probably have to mount some kind of appeal...unless forthcoming details about the decision carry too much contrary evidence
I don't think that McLaren will withdraw, but I will be very surprised if they don't appeal the $100m fine. Ron Dennis purportedly said "we will be racing this weekend".
I see that the drivers escaped a penalty, although it appears that Alonzo was in this up to his eye balls. He is very lucky that the FIA offered him immunity from prosecution.
Alonzo stayed well away from the Paris hearing and left it up to Dennis and Hamilton to argue McLaren's case.
I wanted Ferrari to win, but not like this.
Doubt very much if Alonzo and de la Rosa will still be at McLaren next year.
hmmmm.... I need to read up about it more. Don't know the specifics yet.
But yeah, what a crazy fine! Surely this will sink em?!
And don't forget, this is when all the sponsors start bailing out too
You're so right, it is bound to make some sponsors jump ship, but there are always so many British would-be sponsors ready to ride the wave with Formula 1. There might eventually be smaller sponsors, but a whole lot more of them
Oh yeah..... good point
...but, how many logos can you fit onto a drivers racing suit? Someone might have to do a whole heap of sewing...
They could pull a Red Bull and get the cars covered in little squares
perhaps RBR will buy them out 
Or Stryker!
ROFL
Now that would be funny 
Couple of interesting points raised in it
"In addition, the WMSC also determined that McLaren's 2008 challenger will come under scrutiny before being raced to ensure it doesn't benefit from any intellectual property belonging to Ferrari".
Yeah
"No McLaren representative will be allowed on the podium should a McLaren driver win in any of the remaining races of the 2007 season."
Those were a couple of extra bits gleaned from the 'net
Really?? 
Well, I guess if you're not getting any points, there's no need to be up there...
Hang on.... if they're completely disqualified, if a McLaren comes first, shouldn't second car get the 10 points for their team??
Stepney must have signed an Intellectual Property clause on his contract when signing with Ferrari. He's the one they should be suing with a vengeance...perhaps they are
Yeah, it seems to be that the two at the centre of the whole thing have gotten away scot-free
Hang on.... if they're completely disqualified, if a McLaren comes first, shouldn't second car get the 10 points for their team??
Yes, just as long it's not a McLaren
Yeah, that's what I meant....
So then the team who gets the 10 should be on the podium anyways
I think...
aaargh...now I'm confuzzled
hahahah
trying to unconfuzzle...Let's say that McLaren come in 1st and 2nd and Ferrari come in third...McLaren lose their Constructor Points, but Ferrari only get 3rd place CP's...which is opposite to what you are saying...
McLaren are only disqualified from winning the constructors c/ship, the drivers can still win the drivers c/ship.
...and I agreed with you...
when you said... Hang on.... if they're completely disqualified, if a McLaren comes first, shouldn't second car get the 10 points for their team??
...now disagreeing...
The only thing the Brits can do is for McLarens to knock out both Ferraris in the remaining 4 races, allowing BMW to win and come second. They (BMW) will then win the constructors championship by 15 points
OHhhhhhhhhhhhh
well that's silly.... then the points go to waste!
how so?
- Alonso
- Hamilton
- Kimi
- 0
- 0
- 6
Okay, correct me if I'm wrong, but this is how I understand it -
correctimundo
Well, that's a waste!
3rd place should get 10 and so on....
Why should the rest be penalised if McLaren has been disqualified?
Because they weren't good enough?
But in other races, if the winner has been disqualified, then the awards just move down a spot, so a silver medallist gets gold etc
How is that penalising them if those are the positions they finished in?
Was not McLaren stripped of Constructor Points in a previous race? Did other teams get higher CP's because of it?
Don't know
No
...and McLaren have lost all CP's for the whole of 2007...have the Ferrari CP's been adjusted accordingly...No
do hope this is not a whole load of bollocks...Murray will surely tell us if it is...
But that's in the past....
It is only now that the new system takes hold right?
Anyways, honestly, I don't care....
The whole thing is crazy
Anyways, honestly, I don't care....
Why do you always say this when a convo is not going 100% your way...it is a most annoying and juvenile trait
It's got nothing to do with going my way or not.
I didn't even think we were arguing.
But we are discussing something that really doesn't matter. Bottom line is that McLaren is out. I'm pissed about that!
10/10, well done...the new improved unwindable dekrazee 
OYB
hahaha
kekekeke
Naaaaaah.... really?
Alonso a simple, nice fellow ?!?!?!
... a sneaky, petulant, conniving, whining dago ... err spaniard, more like
Reckon the whole team will be very pissed off with him. I expect to see the pit crew have trouble with jacks, wheel changes and fuel hoses with him from now on...
What I can't understand is how come Ferrari were not culpable in this. Their employee was the one who passed the information and ipso facto they are responsible for that action.
There is also a rumour that the severity of the punishment is due to Ferrari having a "substantially superior" representation in the FIA and that this also led to things being interpreted with a bias towards Ferraris position. Not that I'd know but the FIA isn't exactly known for it's consistency or diligence...
And that the the two engineers who started it all are now employed by other F1 teams...
According to the FIA's findings, de la Rosa wrote in an email to Alonso on 25 Mrach. "All the information from Ferrari is very reliable. It comes from Nigel Stepney, their former chief mechanic - I don't know what post he holds now. He's the same person who told us in Australia that Kimi (Raikkonen) was stopping in lap 18. He's very friendly with Mike Coughlan, our chief designer and he told him that."
The FIA knew at the original hearing in July that McLaren personnel had received data from Ferrari but what prompted the world motorsport council to punish McLaren this time was the intention to use the data received. De la Rosa said he wanted to test Ferrari's weight distribution in the McLaren simulator whilst Alonso was thought it important that McLaren tried out the same gas to inflate its tyres. Coughlan said he was "looking at something similar" when de la Rosa asked for details of Ferrari's braking system.
from f1racing
Which begs the question - why hasn't Stepney been charged with anything yet?
And Coughlan? Again, nothing?
ferrari did not benefit from the whole episode, i don't think the fia has jurisdiction over people other than the drivers?
no wonder alonso was so vocal about bringing a second to mclaren
*penny drops*
That's true!!
Does anyone remember the Malaysian GP topic on 9th April when we were talking about Ron Dennis complaining about flexing floors on the Ferrari, (and some others) and he claimed that they were flexing more than 5mm and had the rules changed as a result??
At the time I questioned (somewhere) "How the hell does Ron Dennis know how much the Ferrari floors ars flexing"? Well now we know, don't we?
Oh yeah!!!
Call me stupid - but why are the drivers (alonso and del la rosa) so important in building/improving a car and its systems that they are getting the emails rather than the engineers/mechanics or the next chief designer (who replaced suspended Coughlan)? Why isn't Ron receiving anything?
Did they receive the emails so as to pass it on to the McLaren team?
I don't get why Coughlan has to discuss anything with a test driver?
I keep seeing this topic and doing a Murray Walker impersonation of the title. It needs a few more exclamation marks. Hope I haven't started something.
Actually I hope I have 
hahahaha oh dear... now I'm hearing it in my head
This is hilarious!
Jackie Stewart 'a certified halfwit'
But, in one of the finest insults issued this year - perhaps even this decade - Mosley has launched into a tirade against the former triple world champion.
"He's a figure of fun among the drivers," he said on Monday. "He goes round dressed up as a 1930s music hall man. He's a certified halfwit."
