one of the misconceptions I think some people have of being an atheist is that we have it's a cold and lonely and nihilist view of life and the universe. I totally disagree. I challenge each of you to write a blog post talking about how you find meaning and inspiration while being an atheist. Tag your post #lotu and I'll link to them all.

I've thought about this all afternoon. I'll put it in here -

(I understand your question as relating to life in general - so my answer is about how I find inspiration and meaning in life)

I've narrowed it down to two things:

• a desire to make my world (which includes both the local and the global) a better place.
• Curiosity. I can't wait to see what happens next, what the world will be like on the last day of my life. With that comes an understanding that my actions affect the future, so I can shape it to what I want it to be.
• Beauty. Be it natural or  man-made, and in any form. Beauty is inspiring, and the best bit is that beauty can be found anywhere, in anything.

Any idea where non-atheists get their meaning and inspiration from? I didn't think it would be all that different.

Hmm, interesting thoughts Cameron. I'll see if I can grab 15 mins.

nice thoughts dek. Personally I find inspiration every time I consider the size, age or complexity of the universe. When I read a book on string theory or a book on quantum mechanics or on astrophysics or neuroscience, I am in awe of the universe we live in and grateful to be part of it. When I read Bill Bryson's book "A Short History Of Nearly Everything", and for the first time appreciated the odds AGAINST life such as ours ever existing, I had a profound sense of wonderment and joy that we are here, now, and that we have so far out-run the odds. It's a beautiful thing. More than that, I see it as a responsibility. Against all odds, we are here, now. What are we going to do with that gift? Waste it watching Big Brother and the cricket? Or use it to do something amazing?

I agree with you. What you describe comes under the banner of 'beauty' for me, cos the universe is just beautiful.

I disagree that watching cricket is a waste of time tho!

http://cectic.com/036.html

I find it odd when people say that without a religion or God to follow, that life must necessarily be meaningless, empty and futile.

Sure, what we do will eventually be forgotten, there's no "retirement home in the clouds" to spend eternity in after we're done with life, so I suppose from the perspective of "I want to exist and be remembered forever" there's not a lot of point to things, but that doesn't render the whole exercise of living completely pointless.

A religion is just one way of feeling like you're a part of something more significant than a single human life. Other people devote themselves to their country, a charity, or a good cause of some kind, others to a career or a family or anything really. There are too many ways to find joy in life, that don't require religion, for life to be futile in it's absence.

Heck, I would say life has more meaning when you're living for yourself, doing what you think is important, as opposed to following dictates handed down from on high. Surely having only one lifespan to live only makes it more important that you live it well - no do-overs or second chances. Just you and you're allotted time on the planet, to do what you can with what time you have.

And as for life being cold... pure rubbish. There's as much, if not more, to find beauty and wonder in as an atheist. That millennia-long processes of evolution have brought about something as deft and perfect as a human hand (or a human brain for that matter). The world that surrounds us, all wrought from natural forces. The deep mysteries of the universe (even Richard Feynman, a quantum physicist, said that no-one understands quantum physics).

So yeah.. plenty of places to find meaning..

I agree Super-King. If you have to find meaning for yourself, it surely has MORE meaning than one handed to you.

I think that the urge to 'leave a mark' on the world or to be remembered forever is a side-effect of the fear of death.

Once you get over that, all you have is living in the moment, and to me, that is so much more productive

Leaving a mark is over-rated. Although it's kinda nice to imagine being remembered for x years, or having advanced the human race in some way, it really does you little good in the long run.. you still end up dead.

This is where a religious-type I know would be saying I've admitted to hopelessness. I see it more as a liberation - don't worry about how you'll be remembered (because in the end, you won't be) and just do whatever brings the most happiness into your life and the world.

Eggactly.... same here.

I want to make a mark. I don't see it as about "being remembered" but as my responsibility to my ancestors.

I don't see it as a responsibility to my ancestors. Only to my fellow human beings

You're ancestors aren't watching you... aren't going to be disappointed if you screw up or pleased if you do well... what responsibility can you have towards them? They're beyond being affected by what the living do.

In other news, a comic on kinda this theme was up today on sinfest.net

If you're wondering, yes that is Buddha on the cloud.

Do you ever stop to think about how many people lived and died, scratching out the most meager of living from the dirt, poor, huingry, all so you could be here today, living in the land of opportunity and freedom, in middle class luxury, doing white collar "work"? I often image I am having a conversation with 1000 of my direct ancestors, having to justify to them what I'm doing with this gift they have given me.

I've started to cartoon it: http://flickr.com/photos/cameronreilly/sets/72157603683640435/
 

Sorry, I don't see it quite the same way.

Yes, for thousands (or millions) of years, people have been barely surviving from one day to the next (some times worse than others of course - I'm sure some of our lineage were happy with their lot in life) but that's what humans do, what we're good at - we survive. Whatever happens, we keep on going.. one generation after another. Being the current generation doesn't leave you with an obligation to somehow validate the efforts of those who went before, they did it out of biological imperative to sustain the species and themselves.

I grant you, we're very privileged to live in the time and place that we do, some would say we're lucky.. I tend to think that someone was going to be alive here and now, so the fact that it's me and not some other random DNA combination is neither here nor there.. but we don't owe that as a debt to our ancestry, it's always the natural tendency to produce some offsrping, and try and improve the world you live in for yourself, and if you you have time, for others.

I'm not articulating this as well as I'd like to be, but I still don't think that we need to feel desperately compelled to "make a mark", for any given justification.

Nice comic idea though 

Nice comics Cam! Good drawing (I have a thing for stick figures)

I have to say, I agree with SK to an extent. I acknowledge all the events that had to happen in order for me to exist, and for me to be where I am. Most of it is a nice confluence of chance. But I don't feel that sense of obligation to any ancestor. That's just too transcendental. There was no intent directly related to me in any of that, the past.

Dead people don't care what you do.

I'm not sure that I agree with you Cam but I do understand your persepective. As a parent I feel that I want to do the best that I can so that I can provide the best opportunities for my kids. Presumably they will eventually have kids and the cycle will continue. It's easy enough to extrapolate that forward in time to my distant descendants and also backwards in time to my predecessors.

I think that the idea that there is nothing (or at least nothing knowable) after you die is also a powerful driving force of inspiration in this. If here and now is all that matters, why am I watching TV? Isn't that an incredible waste.

I have been trying since this thread first appeared to articulate exactly what it is that gives me inspiration in life and I still haven't come up with anything satifactory. The small evil beings (children) that seem to wreck my stuff and generally cause headaches are strangely compelling. As I mentioned above, they make me want to do well in life to provide them with the best opportunities and also to set a good example for them to follow. The strange half-glimpses into the world of meta-mathematics that I've had over my years as a programmer definitely cause a religious-experience-like release of chemicals in my brain. The very idea that the universe can operate according to a collection of rules (some of which we understand, no doubt many which we don't)...I'm running out of words but it has prevented me from posting so many times that I'm just going to throw it out there anyway...And Go!

I swing back and forward between thinking "I'm only here for like, one century at the very most, out of billions of years of universe, better do something cool with my time" and "eh... all the make-a-mark, and life-experience type stuff is so effort-ful, and I'm really just as happy when I'm wasting my time pleasurably"

'twas a wise man who said "Time enjoyed in the wasting is ne'er wasted at all".

I don't know who said that, or if I've remembered it accurately, but I'm paraphrasing something and it seems to make sense.

I think that 'wasting time' gets a bad rap. What I spend my time on would look like time wasting to someone else. But I measure what I do by the experience of it (much like in that quote SK) rather than the activity itself

I think that being alive at all is a privilege (Dawkins loves to talk about the billions of 'me' that didn't make it) but especially being alive here and now with the opportunities we have. Of course, SK, I know that my ancestors aren't watching. Nonetheless, I feel a sense of duty to "repay" them, and their bleak lives, by using the gifts they have given me (us) as best as I can to do something worthwhile.

Why the assumption that their lives were 'bleak'?

(I'm not arguing your point. I agree that we have a responsibility to do our best. Just curious about your choice of word)

History wasn't all horrible - some people did well, others were more downtrodden, but they still must have found some happiness in the world.

I wonder if anyone 500 years ago ever decided to make the best they could of their lives because of a perceived debt to the ancestors who had it even worse Or if 500 years from now, our lives will be considered bleak. Assuming of course that the human race makes it through the next 500 years... 

I'm assuming 500 years down the road, they'll be looking down on us, if the looks I get when using 3-5 yr old gadgets is anything to go by....

The general idea seems to be that time is linear and that as the years clock by, there is progress. It follows than that with the idea of constant progess and therefore constant improvement, the past takes on an inferior tint

The rate of change is actually increasing as technology improves, so 500 years from now they'll be further ahead of us than we are ahead of 500 years ago...

Now.. I just need to find a way to go to 500 years from now, I bet it'd be pretty cool.

There is of course the "scenic route" - the natural progression of time, but for that to be a viable course we'd need some pretty serious life extension treatments. Which will probably require advanced technology.. found in the future.

So I need to go to the future, grab some immortality pills and come back to the present so that I can live long enough to go to the future.. Damn!

LOL!

It is exciting isn't it?

Which is why I said one of the things that keep me going is curiosity. Can't wait to see what happens?

Altho one more war anywhere is gonna depress the crap out of me

Yes indeed. Why can we build a device the size of a water-biscuit containing months of continuous audio but still manage to think that killing people because "they have stuff we haven't got" is a good idea?

Well there's the thing.. I doubt the people who are inventing water-biscuit sized media players are the same ones who are killing people in the name of stuff. "We" as a species may do both things, but I kinda doubt there's a massive overlap between the 2 groups.

But then the issue remains.... after all this time, and all the history, some still see war as an acceptable means of conflict resolution

when I say their lives were 'bleak' I'm measuring it of course by today's western standards. I often wonder what one of my ancestors would think if they could see how I live today.

Relatively recent ancestors (last century or so): "Look at all the cool stuff he has"

Further back: "Behold, a strange vision from the Gods, I should start a religion....." 

LOL!

Art and a genuinely playful attitude towards the question of 'the good life'.