A second thread devoted to Book 2. How do you feel about the new developments in Book 2? Hate them? Love them? Want to take them out to dinner? Share!

If they pay, I'd be fine with dinner. but its a pinch sappy. you know what happens now? people get attached. you know what happens when people get attached? you cant kill a character off. not that i want too now, but its always good to have the option available. you know a good old fashioned character renewal. but now that they become sappy , they will become psycologicaly damaged and we already have enough of that. but the book is good so far. i confess if they become sappy you can play the gruesome disfigurement card much better...sooo its up the the baguetacorn goddesses. (oooh yeah. old school reference.)

I think they're a bit forced. I just can't imagine some of the characters going a long with their current cockamamie scheme.

How so, Topagae? Please elaborate. This would be interesting for me.

Well. There's a lot of personality inconsistencies, logical flaws, and just plain holes in reasoning.

I expect Rakham to never ask his friends to go on a suicide mission since he already died once trying to get them out of one. On top of this you spent several chapters going over how they're vetting candidates for their cold blooded tactical thinking, when in reality if they FOUND someone like that and they KNEW the mission. They would've laughed and walked away. Most of them would in fact.

You can discount Torrent since he was his best friend, Fell too since he's follow his friends into hell which is why I like him so much. Annalise maybe because of the crazy thing with Torrent. You might even pull Averi and Wisteria due to their guilt over Rakham's death. But Rai? Maybe because of Wisteria. Dove? Don't know a lot about her, but since she passed Torrent's tests, one would assume that she would've considered the whole basis of their real mission laughably idiotic.

The point is every character is a "If this" and "Maybe that" in this situation, I can't imagine a group of people would ever unanimously decide to do this. More importantly it would never happen quickly, the opposing motives, reasons, guilt, for and against would be nothing but a quagmire for so many people.

Not only this but the weakest link is the person they're saving, he has the most motivation and history to never send the people he died to protect to their graves. Of course I can actually accept that maybe he's just acting selfish. Which I LOVE, by the way. In all seriousness I really hate authors that don't understand that people are complex enough to act like that. We all act that way and hope that we act like heroes when the time is right.

Oh, and of course there's the "Wow, didn't he just save us from getting killed by the people we're going to?" thing. You'd think that if anything, bringing Averi and Wisteria along would be a huge mistake since, I'd expect wanted criminals to have "Kill or capture on sight" for enemy military units. If they can print magic books, wanted posters aren't far behind.

I did like the clericy temple though. So I'm still a fanboy. Just seems like they're not using their heads, I'd hate to see them not grow in mind as well as ability. In a fit of irony the only one who seems to have grown as a person is the dead one.

If people weren't willing to go on suicide missions, the world would have been destroyed long ago. How do you know Dove isn't dying from some horrible lung disease and she wants to atone by going on said mission? Maybe Fell is actually a genetically perfect specimen who has been bred to fight. Wisteria obviously went on the mission because her code demanded it.

It just seems weird spending so much time growing the wisdom and expertise of characters specifically at a school for adventurers, then have them act so obviously stupid.

They are only second years.

Second years at the very TOP of their respective classes. Seriously, Wisteria is a goddess, Averi won the game, Fell is basically best in his class if he didn't have a crappy sword, etc etc. Not only this but they went through a bunch of crazy situations and it just seems a little odd they didn't learn anything from the experience.

@top:they forgot to write it on their character sheets
and you can still kill a character off if you need a way out. but seeing as they decide to defile the sanctity of life they'd just go on an other quest to save them.

I suppose. Just seems like they got Harry Potter syndrome.

at least harry had an excuse, chosen by 'destiny' and all.
@JLY:but after all of this, i just cant help but keep reading. you and KL's grasp of the engrish language is gooder than most i see heere in my city.

At least the fire festival was adorable :3. I wonder if Fell gets to witness a cat fight later cause of that crazy first year.

JLY, one thing that seemed strange to me was how quickly and meekly Rai followed Annalise's lead to the next checkpoint when Averi was missing. I know it is explained that the best chance of seeing her is to go to the next checkpoint. But I would expect Rai to be more concerned that Averi might be caught, etc., and really have a thorough effort trying find/help her before agreeing to have a look at the checkpoint. Love & emotion tend to act as a cloud even to the most rational of people...

top, i agree. the fire festival had the right level of sweetness to make believe in the human heart again...heh heh heh...

@kadoxo: That's what I was talking about, Rai actually did the smart thing there. Much like getting last in the woods and staying put. Rai did the smart thing and moved on with Annalise. Too bad he doesn't show consistent common sense.

i think its choose your battles with Ria and Annalise

To kadoxo: Rai is tremendously concerned about Averi's safety (and to a lesser degree, so is Annalise, about Torrent's), so it was kind of challenging to write this scene in a way that satisfied our characters, KL, and me. In the original conception of the scene, Rai did push the group into making more of an attempt to find her before leaving for the second checkpoint, but in the end, we and most of the characters couldn't justify their going back into the city or retracing their steps to do so. While Rai is deeply affected by Averi's disappearance, he wouldn't willingly put the rest of his friends in jeopardy to do something that would feel somewhat selfish to him. Perhaps this decision is incongruent with his actions regarding Averi at the Winter Ball, but the situation is such that he has different factors to consider. However, after reviewing this event, KL and I did discuss having Rai leave the group to go after her himself, so it is possible that this will be an added scene later. As it stands now, while Rai seems to meekly acquiesce to the demands of the larger group, it's certainly not without a great deal of inner turmoil, a state of agitation that Rai would only display via the tenacity in which he pursues the second checkpoint.

Any other questions, plot holes, or confusing threads to attend to? Speculations about how the second book will unfold?

Everybody dies but Dove? Cause she was a spy all along. Da da dduuum

yea im looking forward to reading more about dove, shes the person we know the least about, so she has the greatest chance of realy pulling amazing stunts outa her sleeves. i want more dove!

is dove a 'runeaphobic'? is any one left handed? where exactly are Fell's parents? When will he become...'FALLAN'?

I would like to stay away from the "Everybody dies but ..." scenario because I would like to see a Book Three. But I wouldn't be surprised if it happened. I can also accept Dove being a spy.

As for speculations, I have a few, including a few crazy ones that involve my character Step, but I think I will save those for a later time.

I found it strange a stickler like Torrent chose Dove. She's missing the only thing he likes about clerics. Which is instant magical healing of wounds, which she doesn't do.

im not trying to bash the authors, but it so far looks like they needed another healer, so the grabbed Dove, then put the skarkstone(sp?) in so she could help a little

good catch Ralt, they have a use for Dove.

hehehe i almost didnt here the sarcasm, lol. lil off topic, but wish me luck for honor band tomora, ima suck it up bad. im the 8th chair for trombones

Just saying, two people can sleep in the same bed without being romantically involved. I wonder if the bed in the room was just really tiny...

Yes they can, Top. But also remember that in this world, things could be look upon in a different way. Even in the real world, there are things that in one culture are perfectly fine and in another are the biggest taboo ever. And, do you think Avery wants to be in the same bed as Torrent. In any case, I think she made the right choice.

There can be two people in a bed, but I think both Averi and Torrent would be uncomfortable sharing one, even without the proprietary concerns and such.

dang, seems like Averi just grew a pair. and torrent took it lol

There are cultural concerns but after all that malarky about being soldiers you think they'd at least make a few good choices here or there. But what am I spewing, it's a teen novel. Kinda adorable how Torrent shuts up in the face of a strong willed woman.

mayhaps they are just awkward teens? Ochams razor. the explanation that requires the least assumtion is the most likely one.

or she want to give the wounded person room to strech.

You make the fatal flaw of inserting our culture into theirs. At their age they would be considered "Teens" in our culture. Considering the age of technology they're in, and the school they are attending they seem to be nothing short of special op soldiers. This attitude is drilled into our head for a bunch of chapters with their lengthy preparation for the journey, especially picking out a last cleric. That's initially why I Didn't give the story a "Pass" when all the plot holes came down. I thought it was weird it was trying to gloss over stuff like a young adult light hearted novel, but also be a bad-ass realistic war story. Seemed like a bad mix

im not expecting this to be an award winning novel. just a good read that is a couple of good books that help a couple of up and coming authors break on to the scene.

First of all, you should know from my past posts that I am like a mongo fan of your work.  (Also, I should probably warn you that I am going to make up for that fact that I haven't posted in like 2 months right now.)  I love reading the stories and look forward to Friday every week, and I cried a little when my character didn't make it into the Beta (which whatever happened there?).  Some of the things that have stuck out to me as I was reading over the past book and a half:

Why does it seem that all magic schools have magic alarms that all/most of the students know how to disarm?  If the school wanted to make sure the kids obeyed, seems like the staff could handle something as simple as curfew spells.  If the teachers are encouraging adaption and overcoming obstacles, shouldnt they make the alarms more difficult after a while?

How powerful will these students get?  Its year two and they are apparently competent enough to handle international espionage.  Dont they potentially have several more years to go at Eastridge?

I love back story and was intrigued at the earlier mentions of Ren and Allora.  But I was a little disappointed when I read about them being apparently deified heroes.  If they are not, then I apologize for my misunderstanding.  It just seems like the easy way out- a warrior, mage, and cleric archtype "god" being introduced.  I predict a fourth friend of the thief variety that has yet to be seen.

I don't mean to sound like I'm coming down on the story.  I honestly do enjoy your work.  (One of) My favorite part(s) from book one was the twist where Averi was not the real target after all, and Wisteria had to come to the rescue.  I love all of the chapters about the Game.  I can appreciate how difficult it is to create a world like this, and you all have done a great job so far!

Prediction for book 2: The group will try and barter the sword the made to whoever owns Rakams blade.  They will have to square off with some of the same guys from book 1 and a battle will ensue.  Doves serathian bloodline and inability to use rune magic will be key to solving some crucial crunch time problem, and Lyre Cross will end up being a spy for the bad guys. 

Glad to know there's someone else who hates Lyre cross. Oh man. I wonder what thing JLY said. Must've been something mean if she took it down.

@Felix: I agree completely, but nobody gets better if you don't grow and offer criticism. It just seems to me like the story has a couple bad switches. One second it's a serious, realistic 24 (Jack Baur ftw!) with planning, risks, death. Then the next it's the characters behaving completely the opposite of how they said they would, and doing things that make no sense if they're going the 24 route.

for the record i dont like lyre. too french looking. 
@top: so i guess we just keep talking and keep reading and keep on doing our job.

Oh, top, when have I ever been truly mean? I was just going to mention something about their training, but decided not to. =)

bah. then you can just put it back up  and call it a day.

I'm not in the habit of saying things that I haven't quite thought about, and unfortunately that ranks as one of them. ^_^*

Thanks, Superdude. And some answers to your questions:

In regards to the magic alarms statement, Eastridge is the kind of place that has alarm spells for the specific reason that they want students to practice disarming them. For places they wouldn't want students to break into, they have much more complex spells (spells that can't be disarmed by playing chess, figuring out a riddle, or flying a broomstick).

I can't respond fully to how powerful the students are going to get because it would include spoilers for future plots. But they do progress. As for the international espionage part, their mission is risky because of the incident with Serath, but not necessarily as epically dangerous as we've apparently led people to believe. They're not actually wanted in Serath, and Serath and Easden are not technically at war.

My question for you about Ren and Allora is: what do you mean by 'the easy way out'? And Ren and Allora are deified but only in Serath. In Easden, they're simply venerated.

so there is just tension with Serath not war. that makes it much easier. but there is still the question about the guards on the boat...hrm

Yes, there is talk of war as a result of the ceasefire ten years ago, and there's tension there. Oh, what's the question about the guards on the boat?

Is it just me or have things gotten a bit more negative than usually around here? I don't think that story so far is that far out there. I would like to know how they got discovered at the port, though. Just my two bits.

That's a fun idea: did they get discovered at the port?

I contend that they were not discovered, but instead freaked out a little prematurely as a result of anxiety and cabin fever...or Lyre Cross set them up and they did not freak out enough.

@JLY- Maybe "easy way out" was not the best way to put it.  I don't know if this makes sense outside my brain, but I will try and explain my thought process.  I have been so excited for more backstory to be revealed-ever since you mentioned the fates of Allora with Wisteria, that I think I was expecting something a little more...elaborate.  In my minds eye, I see these heroes that were like the best heroes ever, and they were great and amazing and then insert the last 5 min of Disneys Hercules movie and poof, gods.  It was a feeling like,"you can do whatever you want, and you're doing this?"  That is not meant to be an insult, but that was kind of my gut reaction.

I know I'm not being very fair to Ren and Allora.  I haven't really given them a chance, or let you fill in more details.  I don't really know where they came from, what they did, or who else is included in the Pantheon in this world- but I want to know, which is a good thing.  I think its just hard to look from the outside in, you know what you have in store and how things work and we just have to wait and see.  I hate waiting.

I hope that helps clarify.  Still a huge fan of your work, and thanks for answering.

Well, JLY, if you put it that way, they could have been discovered any time after they left the school. But why wait until they got to Serath? Could it be for political reasons? Maybe someone in Easden wants the war to start again and tried to the group as a means toget things started?  Or maybe its 3 in the morning and I am just rambling on. The world may never know...

Maybe the dock guards started pulling weapons when some cocky foreigners started drawing steel. Personally I think this scenario would be hilarious.

@TLo: using my awesome powers of deduction i have figured out what side of what continent you live on!

I just wonder, were the guards after them or was it a random search during tense times, like America is experiencing now. If so i really think Torrent push cultural understanding of warriors back a century or so, "dont ask questions, just hit them harder than they hit you, WAAAGH!!!" (+10 points if you get that last part)

ahahaha warhammer XD. gotta love the greenskins

Hi Felix. And what side would that be? The best side, right?

As for the guards, it could have been a random search. It wouldn't be the first time some warrior over reacted.

@Ralton: ten points for you.
@TLo: i live on the best side. you live on the second best side.

im still amidships on the guard issue. need moar opions.

Well Felix, I'm not a Warhammer fan so there wasn't much hope of me getting the quote.

I like to think I live on ... the far side ... And my side isn't buried under multiple feet of snow either. In fact the sun is out but it is a bit overcast and 65 degrees.

As for the guards, well, what are your other theories? Are they foreign or domestic based or was it just a case of bad luck? Do tell, do tell...

there are details we would need, like: are they private guards: are they national military: are they veteran guards: did they just do a compulsory check a little "squad deep"? who are his people? where did he come from? these are the things I need to know! (+10 reference)

@JLY: hint hint nudge nudge. not expecting much but. hint hint nudge nudge.

Ooooh, she's steeealing....wait shes a thief, never mind...

Kinda figured she might.

@felix" riddick im guessing

and yea i kinda figured theyd steel more stuff, just not horses...

Did anyone else notice that 2/26/10 and 2/26/10 were a week apart? I must be losing my grip on time.

@ralton: your really good at this...
@TLo: yes as a matter of fact i have. looks like the BM (book master) has made an uh-oh.

somebodys rushing... anyway im up 20 nutin in the game

@Felix: Good. For a while there, I thought I was losing it.

@Ralton: Sorry, I'm not very good at the quotes game unless is something like "...don't ask what your country can do for you. Ask what you can do for your country."

@TL: np im just realy bored lol, and i watch/read to much stuff.

If any y'all are going to the GDC this week, hit me up. There's tons of parties!

I'll be in the area, though not for the GDC. Have fun though; one of my friends is having a blast. =)

Also, I dig the paradigm shifts. Its good to know the students have to learn that not everybody is a jerk just because they're your countries enemy.

*Sanitized for my safety*

dont know what your talking about, but i doubt ill be there. track sucks. ran 4 miles up n down hills with like 30mph winds. OW

Yea, I avoided track. I hate running..... I miss FS and Max. Where have they been lately I wonder.

i know top...i remember when i was the new guy...now im the second oldest...(outside the creators of course)

i started because i wouldnt choose to do it by myself, so i flipped a coin. i miss them too, i wanna argue with FS some more

Not to crash the conversation, but...can we relocate to Not Another Importance Thread?

I think our days of crashing these forums are over. But to keep on track. I honestly think one of the girls would've pumelled Rai a bit harder for his presence in the bath. Dissapointing.

they probably will do so later. you just cant beat on a person in the baths for no reason can you?

start some locker brawl and take it to far? seen that happen before track lol

WTF!?! Sorry, I'm still trying to comprehend what just happened. OK, I understand that you have some concerns(like school and family) and would like to slow the pace down a bit. It would be nice to get a little more background info on the characters. But what is wrong with Book 1? I have read both the online and hard copy versions and they seem fine to me.

On the subject of Book 2, I understand if you need to take a break, but let me just say, speaking as a pilot, "when you are flying along and you stop the engine, you can only glide so far before the ground comes up to meet you". I don't want to see SFA end up a smoking hole in the ground because of stagnation.

OK, that's my two bit. For good or bad. But whatever happens, I will always be watching...

I have to agree with TLoHiroshi. I have purchased the hard copy Book 1 from Amazon and I don't understand why it needs to be revised. I have been thoroughly enjoying Book2 and I felt it was hitting a good momentum. I am so disappointed with this latest update because I was eagerly checking back for my next instalment only to see this.  

@JLY: im happy the Rai is every ones favorite thief cause Lyre is a mook. But aside from that: you need time, that's okay; But there isn't a crowd more fickle than internet fans, fans who can go out and search for the next best thing in five minutes.So, take your time but don't dawdle, at least that's my advice.

While I have not read Book 1 in hard copy form, I am interested to see what kinds of changes you have in store.  I understand your need to take a breather and regroup, life gets in the way sometimes.  I have enjoyed reading the story thus far and am looking forward to see what else is in store for our group.  Hope families and school are ok.

just wanna say your amazing writers and that while i know life is tough. it would sincerly hurt me to know that this might end. please dont ok? now hug me cuz ye love me =)

end? no. just take a different path for a while.

Wh...Bu... Wa.... I.... Uh... Awwwwwwwwww.

Ju... I... er..... Awwwwwww.....

Ok im over my shock.

I just wanted to say: I hope your decision to stop posting isn't in part to the lack of forum activity.  I know you probably have no way of telling how many people are reading, but as you can clearly see there are still a lot of people out here (myself included) who follow the story every friday.  I know that a lot of writers have issues with being overly critical with their work and I sincerely hope that's not the case here.

I hope you'll continue writing in the near future.  When the second book comes out, you can bet i'll be one of the first to buy it.

(also, I hope you don't revamp the first book overly much... I already bought my copy and I wouldn't want to have to buy another)

Think of it as, that book's going to be a collector's item...someday...maybe...we'll do our best. =)

And KL and I aren't going to abandon the book by any means, and personal crises aside, we'll still post updates of what we're working on. We look forward to your feedback. One of our goals in rewriting the first book is really making it tighter and more exciting, since we're working on finding an agent.

Well you'll have to promise me a signing of my original when you're a famous author

Yeah, and sign mine too. I don't see how you are going to make book 1 more exciting. Really, its fine the way it is. If you want to make it more exciting, make an animated movie or something out of it.

Tighter? Will Wraith have  infinite knives? cause that would be awesome. and make his clothes tight. if you didnt catch that.

no you silly gooses, this is book two