This forum thread is dedicated to the discussion of rewritten scenes and new parts of Book 1. Tell us what you think!

I know you're just going to think im being biased, but I have to say I liked the original prologue a lot better so far.

My first impression of this prologue was that it seemed like you were trying to reveal too much at one time.  For example, almost all of your first paragraph is how Fell looks.  The only really important thing in how he looks is probably how you explain that his hair is messy.  That shows his character, if only a little.  His "Long arms" and "Gold candidate's tunic" aren't a key to understanding who he is as a character and should therefore be left to the bulk of the story.

As I say that though, it seems like the story felt a little forced.  Once you had all the trivial appearances worked out and stated, you moved swiftly into action to attempt to gain the reader's attention which, again, felt a little forced.  Almost none of the action is related to the characters.  Fell's character is portrayed as strong (where the rest of the story, he's weak), Averi is shown as being quite skilled and cocky (which she isn't), and Rai... well, he might as well have been tuxedo mask in the way he showed up which isn't quite how I saw him as a quirky, charming boy... not dangerous/mysterious (although I guess all the girls see him that way when he first shows up).

Again - I wish that you'd show more of the characters in a way that doesn't detract from the story.  Example: Fell's hair is messy, but maybe he could have an old bruise or scar that shows more of his time from before coming to Eastridge.  Perhaps his long arms could be deceptively muscular from all his hay-bailing he had to do.  Or at the very least, show a little fear and recklessness by waving his hands out in front of him while backing away.

When Averi looked down at herself and didn't see the regal gown, I thought that felt a little like telling and not showing.  Perhaps you could give her a "Commanding voice which gave the boys pause.  The way her shoulders squared reminded the boys of the noble lady who ruled their home town"  Saying that she doesn't see a regal gown almost feels like you're giving it away.

There's not enough comedy in Rai's appearance, either.  He's always been quirky.  Perhaps a "Smile that could strip the paint from walls" or something.

Anyways, that's my first impressions. In summation, I think the characters need to be introduced in a way that tells more of their character.  I'll agree that the original opening felt a little clunky--almost equally forced in the way you presented each character with a unique situation that best displayed their personalities.  But I think, so far, it's worked better than this just because it did, in fact, display their personalities.

I hope this helps!

Hey Maxwell. Thanks for the feedback! It's really helpful, and JLY and I will talk it over. =) Don't worry about giving feedback on what we need to improve--we know this is a rough draft and we really want to make it better.

Hello kiddos.  I am going to disagree with Maxy a little, and not just because its fun (although that does help).  I enjoyed the added description in the writing.  I am trying to read this while keeping in mind that this is my first introduction to these characters.  I am trying to "see" them for the first time, and I think its nice.  If this was the first time I was meeting Fell, or Rai, then I would expect a little more detail to establish a mental picture.  I do agree that character is important, and that there are more subtle ways to introduce the storyline. But like you said, this is a rough draft.

I really like the idea of candidate tunics and interviews, but I'm not sure how I feel about brawling teens bursting through the Library doors in the Royal City.  I would think that if Fell were really concerned about getting caught, it would be by town guards or librarians as opposed to teachers.  I love that Rai and Fell are a little more seemingly proficient.  I was wondering why they let Fell in the first time around if he had absolutely no other skill other than professional punching bag.  And I think that it makes more sense for Rai to be in the Thief major when you show that he does have a modicum of thievery skill, other than being a smooth talker.  And for the record, if Rai ever wanted to start a fight by throwing down a rose, that would be amazing.

My favorite line in the intro was Averi when she was grabbed by the leader, "Right.  There were three of them."  I can just imagine this really chagrined, kind of wincing expression on her face.  Good times, good times.  I am looking forward to see what other revisions you have in mind.

Hi All. I tend to agree with Max. It seems that all the characters are acting "out of character". The scene itself I like. Maybe this could be like a flashback where everyone is talking about that particular day around a campfire sometime during book 2. But as the prologue to book 1, this scene, as written, changes the whole dynamic of the book. If book 1 hadn't been written yet, it probably would be fine. But it has and so I say keep book 1 the way it is. I also say write it the way you want, not what you think an agent is going to accept. Agents can sometimes be a double-edged sword so be careful who you choose.

Just my 2 bits.

i think the characters were in a stressful environment and that tweaked their personalities. they were trying, and just maybe failing, set the best impression at the interview. this would easily bend a person in a way they aren't normally going to bend. plus i think fell could handle himself for a couple of bullies when this much paranoia and adrenalin and roaring though his veins.

     I'm not going either way on the good or bad scale. i think the first was a tad weak and this is a bit strong. they both could use improvement

I was going to write something witty and informative, but instead I'll have to settle with agreeing with Max completely. I also miss the super cow that saves Fell. It set the tone for the entire book for me =)

Hey Superdude, TLoHiroshi, Felix, and Topagae,

Thanks for sharing your reactions with us! JLY and I have decided to try out something we've been discussing for a while, which is to write at least three different openings to the book before we try to make a decision about what we should ultimately go with. We'll definitely keep all of your comments in mind as we get to work on the next opener, and we're looking forward to hearing what you think. =) In each iteration, we're trying to keep different good things about the original prologues and see how they play in a new framework. We'd be happy to hear your opinions on what's working and what's not.

Oh in that case, specifically this opening seemed far too crowded. I really super enjoyed the original because it focused on one character at at time for extended periods of time. And the cow again, she was awesome.

Please don't stop writing the the second book. Please Please Please. Oh and by the way the prologue was great and i love it how Fell Rai and Avery meet early so they can start to be friends, but what i didn't get was, why were Lanks and Yan there.

i second the cow opinion. and it felt like it was a bit rushed.

Thirdeded the Cow motion

Go Cow!

Oh goodness, I'm didn't realize Bessie was so popular.

Aww, I forgot that I do miss Bessie.  She was awesome.  Maybe you could give all of Lyre Crosses parts to Bessie in this next re-write?  Ohhh, and have her get the undead rune instead of Averi.  Undead Rune Ninja Cow FTW!

This re-write was just "ok" to me.  I like how you used dialouge to establish Averi this time as opposed to just describing her, and that the storyline pace seemed to be more relaxed.  There were a few things that I re-read that I thought were a little off.  Where Averi mentions this crowd of four judges being more terrifying than foreign kings (at least thats how it came off to me), but without really explaining why.  Did she stand there in silence for 10 minutes listening to them find fault with her application?  Had she been late to the meeting and now shes super sure she will never make it in?  Maybe saying something about her ability to stay detatched in the past being comprimised, or that this was her first time facing these things alone to help the reader better understand just why these four judges scare the pudding out of her.

 I thought it was strange that there was no mention of major or minor in the discussion, and that the interview appeared to consist of 5 questions total.  All in all, I would have to say that I enjoyed Rais interview session much more, having just re-read his.  For what its worth, I think if that you're original opening is so good.  If you took your original opening and just retooled that, I'm sure you could make it amazing.  You could have a nice flow to start with Fell applying, Rai having an interview, Averi receiving her letter, and Wisteria not even knowing that shes on her way, adding new details or fixing things from there.

Sorry, I don't mean to ramble or "back seat drive".  You ladies have done a fine job so far, I'm sure you will work it out. 

To be perfectly honest, it was the individual characterizations that initially drew me into SFA (as well as the aesthetics--a nice  drawing of each character). It was an easy way in, and after reading the prologue, I became interested in the story and the rest is history. It feels like too much is happening with the new introductions. I don't get the same sense of who the characters are with the new ones.

The new introductions face two difficulties: First, the simplicity of the initial introduction is lost. Simplicity is great for entering the series, and is something I like about SFA and is something that really fits the story. Secondly, it is very hard to write characters as they once were, not how they are now. The new introductions would be great for beginning Book 2, but they don't really seem to fit the personality and tone of the characters at the beginning of Book 1.

I say keep Book 1 as it is, and focus editing energy on perfecting Book 2 before printing. The characters have evolved to a certain level, and anything you write about them in Book 2 will reflect their personality at this stage. Editing Book 1 now is likely to change the characters in strange ways so that they act like they do now. Conversly, writing Book 3 before finishing Book 2 would make the charaters seem dull & unchanging. Just look at Harry Potter for example. J.K. Rowling said she wrote the ending of the last book at the beginning and put it in an envelope. Yet the writing style, the tone, and the characters personalities evolved over the years she wrote the series. If you read the last page now, it is like a flashback to the first two books, and you can tell that the very end portion of the book was written at a different time.

Just my 2 cents.

"You could have a nice flow to start with Fell applying, Rai having an interview, Averi receiving her letter, and Wisteria not even knowing that shes on her way, adding new details or fixing things from there." - Superdude.

I would like to personally say that i would agree with the Rai and Wisteria parts, especially if she was sent on her way to the meeting and not knowing it was the meeting. i would like to see Averi applying in secret, and Fell receiving his letter and the giant swell that gives him only for the dread of actually making it in.

Is Averi skipping all the parts in her story where she switched majors now? Just curious.

@Kadoxo: Exactly,  I don't see why we need to see every character at once, I fell in love with them individually as they all wandered toward an uncertain future at Eastridge.

I'd also like to mention that the interview questions are just plain silly. I'm going off the first question "Tell us why you're good enough for us". Which is generally avoided due to being super insulting to applicants. At best it's an okay expository essay question that could show up on an application. What smart interviewers do, is ask lots of implied questions that require quick thinking. This in turn gives lots of answers to questions not SPECIFICALLY asked which helps the interviewer gauge multiple things at once, knowing that they're more likely to be truthful because the person is answering them implicitly I.E, not directly thinking about what question is actually being answered.

For example: If I asked "As a Rogue you'd have to regularly complete assignments knowing full well you'd have to interact and manipulate complete strangers and their possessions, how okay are you with this?"

Why this is a great question: So there's the specificity of the main question which is nice, but lets go a little bit further. This question  also answers how a student feels about dealing with other students, the teachers that give assignments, the shadiness of the Rogue major in general which opens up lots of philosophical debate and reasoning. Finally it goes into how they think/interweave all these things. A good interviewer would subtly lead a student on these paths to try and answer questions with directly asking them.

Lastly a smart student, especially a roguish one, would see this and give better answers. Maybe one of the qualifications for Rogues is that they have to lie convincingly to the easy to see through questions XD.

Well, here is my 2 bits,

First up, I would like to say that this one was a bit better that the first one (#1). I do now recall that there was not much in the way of how the students were chosen for the school in the first book. The process was shown, but not how each student dealt with each step of the process. It would be interesting to see how Wisteria's interview went as I would think it would be a perfect chance for her to defy her mother and get thrown out before anything got really started. I do wonder why Averi would be terrified at her interview. Maybe a little apprehensive. But after dealing with royalty from a foreign country, being in the presents of four hooded figures in a controlled environment shouldn't be that big of a deal. Of course, after the lights went out, getting a little terrified would be justifiable. Overall, I would have to say this scene was fine.

However, having said all that, I think, as I said before, that this would be better served as a flashback scene for Book 2 than the intro for Book 1. I really do think changing Book 1 is a bad idea. Its already gone to print. So unless you are to reintroduce it as like a "Director's Cut" version, I think you are going to have a hard time selling it to the masses. But hey, its your baby. Do want you feel you need to do.

@Top: I think you are missing something. This scene happened back at the begin of Book 1. You know, back when Averi was entering as Mage Major and a Warrior Minor. I don't see why the board would be asking her Thief Major questions. And as for the questions, these people can ask whatever they like if they feel its going to help them determine who gets in and who doesn't. Going over the application during an interview is a valid procedure, even today. Anyways, its an interview, not an interrogation. There is a difference.

@Tlo: My main beef was the odd amount of cross major questions, and I know it's an interview not an interrogation, they played it more like a really awful interview and I just want it to sound like a smart one XD

I really much rather preferred this rewrite to the first.  I might even go so far to say that it's better than Averi's original introduction.  The first intro was a little cliche.  Riding up to the gates in her wagon seems like a pretty obvious choice for any author and really lacks that little bit of depth that this revision adds.  I particularly liked the questions that the teachers were asking.  They kept the story interesting while at the same time introducing Averi in a way that much better portrayed her character.

There were a few things that I didn't take to, but it's just a work in progress.  I'm sure you'll flesh them out.  For example: "Years of courtly training kept Averi from starting in surprise.  Mother would be proud, she thought, recalling the years spent learning how to hide how she was feeling" -- A little redundancy there.

Another example: "'Hold on to that' the man said by way of dismissal.
Feeling as though he hadn't explained anything at all, Averi curtsied and calmly left the room."  Again, a little redundant.  "As though he hadn't explained"--but he didn't explain.  We already know.

But this is me knitpicking.

Let me reiterate that I really like this particular version.  But it'll take some work to get the other characters involved into a singular, linear storyline from this point.  You've ended the scene and the only way to continue it from here might make it blocky like the first with isolated scenes connecting.  At any rate, I look forward to reading more on this revision!

I really liked this intro, but it didn't seem to have enough explanation about what Averi was doing, or where she was. It seemed hinged on the fact that you know what Eastridge was, and what it did. Maybe I'm missing some pages or something but the link I clicked just took me to a scene with Averi handling a coin and a thief trying to steal her spot.

the power of foreshadowing is quite powerfull...

Hola.  I read your note on your blog, I think that was helpful to see your concerns for the book and what specific aspects you're concerned with. Just a few general notes (I know you must be overcome with prolific rapture that is nigh unfathomable as you read those words after each post).

In regards to point of view: have you ever seen Buffy the Vampire Slayer?  The tv series specifically.  When I read book one, I am reminded of that.  Buffy is of course the main character, but what made that show soo good was how well the characters played off one another.  I think our little group is similar.  I agree that the viewpoint could stand to be tweaked, but I feel that part of its charm is the fact that we do get insight into the other characters.  I just want you to be careful and not get too caught up in the idea that it has to be all Averi all the time.

I also wouldn't be concerned about location as much when we're starting out.  I have read books one and two and I have felt like Eastridges position as "Setting" is secure.  I thought it was interesting in the above post that once someone posted something about Bessie, how other people came forward and identified positively with that scene.  Personally, I had forgotten about it, but when I remembered it, I really did smile and think, 'oh yeah!"  So my question to you is, is the book really about the school, or is it about the students?  Thats what I think is great about the prologue, the personal back stories in the beginning really help us connect with our little group.

I also noticed that Averis says "Eastridge: School for Adventurers" in every one of the new intros.  Was that purposeful?  In my mind, I thought the "School for Adventurers" sas more a part for your book, not really the name of the school.  I thought they just called it Eastridge or Eastridge Academy.  When I read Averi saying the whole thing it kinda sounds like product placement, or like a commercial.  What student says, "I go to Blahdy Blah Blah High School"?  They use the shortest means of identification possible.  In my mind Eastridge is well known enough to simply be, "Eastridge".  Maybe a teacher would be  better suited to identify the formal school name.

Sometimes I wonder how you guys do it, and I don't just mean the writing.  You are remarkably open to suggestions and gracious to comments and criticism.  If people sat around griping about my hard work, I would tell them "if they don't like it they can go publish their own dang book!"  And that is reason #14 that I am not an author, so kudos to you guys.

i agree supe, but for the record i do call my old school by its full tittle, Walter Biddle Saul High School for the Agricultural Sciences. so yeah...

I do like the idea of the coin game.  It really introduces the type of school it is--but I wasnt a fan of this particular redux.  I would like to see Redux 2 but with this coin game added afterward

Well, I know this is a bit late but I have been trying to avoid one of my life's potholes. Unfortunately, this pothole is the size of Arizona's Meteor Crater. So if I suddenly stop posting for a long while, you will know I have fallen in.

Now, on to more interesting things. My view on this rewrite is pretty much the same as the other two so I won't bore anyone with repeating it. I do have few things I wish to point out.

1) I noticed that the 3 re-writes seem to be connected. Like its actually one re-write broken in 3 pieces.
2) I read the blog and don't really agree with the reasoning behind the re-write. There is nothing wrong with leading in with Fell. I don't think we loose sight of the world because the world is not the focus of the story. Its about the students not Easden. And there is nothing wrong with introducing 4 characters in the prologue. I did not get the feeling that it was scattered.
3) It seems that all 3 re-writes are Averi centric.
4) I do like the whole interview process.

Now, of course, these are just my opinions/observations. As i have said before, I don't think there is anything wrong with the original prologue. And as they say, "If it ain't broken, don't fix it".

this one seem to be a good proxy, but if you were to fully replace it it would need a bit more filling out. add one good whoopin, and the scene is a good replacement.

New one is short but sweet. Really like it actually. Definitely the best so far in terms of "Replacement" prologues.

A thought occurs. How would someone who just applied know the invisibility rune? In the first part of the thieves training all the new thieves seem flabberghasted at how their seniors were unseen and in general didn't know about these runes.

PLOT HOLE!

Where was this in the book? Or is that more of a general comment? I would say that people know about the Invisibility Rune, but might not be able to do it. And I think the surprise is more about the mass, well-applied use of the Invisibility Rune. It's always one thing to read about it than see it, after all. And the Invisibility Rune isn't the only way to disappear. Of course, these are just the explanations I can think of.

theres a difference between reading about and seeing a invisibility rune? how do you see it? (good joke. snare drum. everyone laughs.

Haha, Felix. =)

hehehe that was pretty good. look at it this way. everyone knows what a gutar is. think if an amature went into a shop and heard this crazy good dude. hed be flabergasted how he did that. even tho he knows how to play guitar

I see.

I dunno, still seems holish. How accessible is this knowledge? Even if it's argued to be accessible knowledge, which a gifted or well off applicant may well be. If someone had the talent and access to, what I am assuming is vigorous training necessary to use this rune well. Why on earth would they need to go to Eastridge? Seems like the guy who didn't get in by the implied logic was an extremely overqualified applicant who had the misfortune to run into somebody with a name. And of course the obvious plot holes of Thief majors not using perhaps one of the most powerful tools a person could ever have, neigh constantly if it IS that easy to learn. Even Rowling had enough hackneyed sense to make that invisibility cloak the best power the lil wizards gang had.

Of course people don't really think about that. It made me smile when I thought of a boy materializing with a grin on his face to the haughty princess. I'm betting that's the experience it was meant to convey. Which is why despite my griping. I liked this scene the best still.

Also, no new update Boo.

Second addendum, got a job at Zynga, also releasing my own game(s) at Fanime in San Jose May 28th if anybody still trolls this forum, and in an even bigger longshot. Is going to Fanime

To chime in:

The rune that Rai uses in Redux III is the Hide Rune (a much less advanced form of the Invisibility Rune). The practical difference is that the Hide Rune doesn't make a person completely invisible, it just obscures them to a degree. Think of it like the difference between melting into the shadows versus standing in broad daylight and just disappearing. If someone looked directly at a person using the Hide Rune (as Averi does in the prologue), it's possible to tell that there is someone there, even if you can't get a good look at them. It's true that we might have made the Hide Rune sound more powerful than it is in the prologue, maybe because there's no true Invisibility Rune for comparison, or because you don't see how difficult it is to maintain over time. (Someone at Rai's level at the time of the prologue can probably only hold it for a couple of minutes.)

Another way of thinking of learning runes is as learning a foreign language. If you locked yourself in a room with a French dictionary, you could probably eventually learn the words, though you might not understand the syntax unless someone explained it to you. (Sure, someone might have a grammar book, but for the sake of this example, we're saying that grammar requires a little more explaining while words are more memorization.)  And for that matter, most people don't end up sitting in their rooms trying to learn French words on their own--they'll go to a class. So the students coming in to Eastridge will probably know a handful of runes, but not the right ways to combine them or even the best ways to use them. (In the analogy, they could probably order at a French restaurant, but would have no idea how to have a conversation. ^_^)

Also, it should be noted that people in magic-related majors are expected to have some fundamental knowledge before coming in -- hence Fell's placement in remedial magic since he came in as a blank slate.

Anyway, it's good to hear that a few of you liked the third prologue! Though we've taken a break from prologues this week, we hope you'll enjoy KM Ricker's take on the teachers. JLY and I were definitely laughing out loud at many parts of the scene. =)

Hehe, nobody bet on the poor guy.

Just FYI, making the rune less effective doesn't really squelch any of my argument. Even being able to be somewhat invisible for 5 seconds would be infinitely useful in just about every situation to the point that every major should be learning it first. Especially Warriors, ironically

Can you expand on that?

I agree that the Invisibility Rune and the Hide Rune are incredibly useful. I’m a little confused as to why that would mean someone is overqualified, and a little bit more unclear as to why that would negate their needing to go Eastridge since the Invisibility Rune and Hide Rune are really only two isolated skills related to Thievery in what should be a comprehensive toolbox of strategies.

Being able to move around without detection is a useful skill, but the power of using the Invisibility and Hide Runes is mitigated not only by the individual power of the user but also by the sheer effort of keeping those runes up while concentrating on other variables in the surroundings.

Warrior majors don’t usually learn the Invisibility Rune because a large majority of people in the Warrior major don’t actually have a high enough affinity for magic for that to be worth their while and/or feasible to learn. Not to say that it shouldn’t be learned, and that’s why Warriors with the background and magical affinity do learn it at some point, though it’s not really within the scope of their concentration.

Thief majors do learn these runes much sooner than Warriors, but it does take effort and time to build up the skill and stamina to hold it while running, fighting, and/or stealing. Harry Potter was quite fortunate that he didn’t actually have to work magic while treading around invisibly.

Hi All,

First up, I liked KMR's post. It was a nice change and worth reading. It was kind of like one of thoes behind the scenes type of things. Hopefully we will see more of these as times go on.

So KMR, when are you going to finish drawing up the rest of the teaching staff? I would love to see what the Thief and Cleric Major professors look like.

Well JLY/KL, I have to agree somewhat with Top on the rune thing. It does seem a bit out of place for a new student to be able to effectively use a Hide (read conceal) or Invisibility rune even if they have had some previous training. I think part of the problem is most of us don't know what power/complexity level these runes actually are. We have no list of available runes and their power levels. If I may drop into a D&D reference, I would expect Mage Majors to be able to cast a few 0-level spells and maybe a 1st level spell or two. Invisibility is a 2nd level spell, and hence out of range for a beginner. And when I say beginner, I mean someone who has had some training. Now if someone was using an item, that would be a different story. BTW, any chance that we will ever see a list of known runes?

Also, I would think that the Thief Majors (and Warrior Majors for that matter) would be encouraged NOT to use runes in the course of their assignments. Otherwise, every Thief Major would be a Mage Minor. A show of true skill, IMO, would be to do a thievery task without needing runes. Because rune magic may not always be there. Now Warrior Majors may not learn Invisibility but they should would the Shield rune and any other rune that would enhance their defensive or offensive capabilities. I know I would.

Well, that's all I have for now. Of course, these is just my opinions. I reserve the right to be shown the error of my ways.

Even if someone comes to Eastridge knowing every rune, just coming to class and doing the assignments would give them an opportunity to improve casting time or some other aspect.  If they were the one of the best mages in their community, they would get the opportunity to test their skills against other students like themselves.  Look at Wisteria and whats his name, Sariil Darek.  They get all up in each others rival-rous faces and have duels, and Wisteria is the better for it even though she was already crazy good when she showed up at school.  Some clerics have had more healing experience, some warriors have had more battle time.  I don't think its hard to imagine that some students would have more thieving experience than others, and would have already discovered the invisibility rune.  Invisibility alone doesn't mean success in a world where magic traps lay in wait for bumbling thieves.

I have ALOT of work in the morning but let me quickly explain.

Eastridge suffers the same problem almost every game/book/setting does with Magic. And simply put. It's freaking MAGIC. It changes the rules on everything and the biggest plotfiles are when these rules aren't followed, or make sense in context of what you want to write. In this way, deus ex machina, and drastically different portrayal of powers will cause lots of bewildered looks.

Let me elaborate further. I'll assume that this thief in this scenario could maintain a hide rune for 5-10 seconds to snatch a token from our unwitting princess. Harmless fantasy magic hijinks? No, this kid is a retard.

Deeper down the rabbit hole you can see why. All modern forms of combat depend on sight, and sight of your opponent. A good martial artist will tell you that 99% of a real fight between skilled opponents ifs footwork and positioning. What if your opponent couldn't see what you were doing for 1/10th or for arguments sake, 1 second? The answer is that using magic will propel you forward in "Skill level" exponentially faster then someone without in a way that other opponents can only counter with anti-magic,  magic, or here's the kicker: plot holes. That kid should've taken a year of sword fighting and just murdered every one of his opponents.

But you can't do that, so characters with wild and fantastic powers that make them far superior then anyone without them WILL go around acting like idiots. Not only this but to give their opponents a fair chance they'll have to have unexplained "Magic" of their own.

Every single time I read about blast rune in the story, I do some very cursory physics calculations based on damage descriptions. Even when being VERY generous to the opposition a blast rune is liable to tear the flesh right of your bones and explode the marrow, then probably kill anyone even remotely nearby of internal bleeding from completely ruptured internal damage. Instead non mages and mages alike exhibit healing factor-esque durability akin to a fighting manga. This makes for better story telling obviously, but in real life a sword fight lasts about ten seconds, because somebody gets stabbed and dies. If you could turn invisible, or invisibleish, you could easily cheat somebody with 10-20 years more experience then you, if it is even possible to beat an opponent who do that at all without getting lucky or just rounding up a posse.

My point is that all of these factors don't add up, and when they blatantly don't add up it's frustrating, breaks the suspensions of disbelief, and in some cases doesn't make sense.

Because the way you have things now, the only explanation is that people have a linear relation with selective retardation and magical affinity. The higher your magical affinity the more likely you're not going to deal with problems like a complete idiot who doesn't remember they have magic powers. And with warriors you seem to have just "Marvelled" it, everyone is super durable and healing magic == healing factor.

Don't take that as an insult though. Spider-man is mah homeboy

Okay.

plot armor. its the only way to explain it. 

@top: Brian clevenger is doing a remake of the avengers and the infinity gauntlet, and world war hulk: wolverine vs cap

@Felix REALLY? Man I knew 8 bit theater and atomic robo would finally get him somewhere.

My Plight:

So I'm cleaning up my room today, and this includes my bookshelf and the reordering (and removal) of all my books.  Since my shelf space was limited, I created four piles as follows; throwaways, bad novels (who knows, maybe my kids will like them more than me), favorites, and series.

You can imagine that all of my book series got their own shelf, seeing as there were so many, and that shelf looks beautiful now!  The colour of each series lined side by side with another reminds me of a small rainbow.  Meanwhile, the second shelf, which I've allotted the right side for the detestable books and the left for my favorites, could only be described as a child's finger painting with both colour and book sizes mixed together to form the best kind of order I could manage--but failing horribly.

So, getting to the point of my story, you can imagine my frustration when I came across one of my most favorite novels; Eastridge Academy: School for Adventurers.

On the one hand, the book belongs in a series and should therefore be prominent amidst the rainbow shelf of perfect order and loveliness.  But on the other hand, I don't have another book to sit beside it and keep it company.  It crossed my mind to just let this one go, and put it on the rainbow shelf in hopes that the second book will one day be completed, but alas, I cannot make such an exception, for such a breach of protocol would surely start a riot amongst my other treasured books.  There would be blood in the streets of the shelfy-township and all my books, bad and good alike, would be destroyed in the chaos.

I therefore implore you one last time, JLY and KL--for the sake of me and my books--begin again writing the second book.

You worry that the average agent will not share my fanaticism of the series, but I think only: "who cares?"--you have fans who adore it.  Adore you.  And it's that which is the true heart of SFA, I think.  The most powerful message you could send to an agent isn't the prologue.  It's a new-age URL.

http://www.tangler.com/forum/viewHome.action?gId=id-19232

And there's not a lot of authors who can say they have gotten this far without publication.

- Max

Here, Here! What Max said!

@top: check out the site
@max: i find your colorful and comedic demonstration of our plight refreshing. 
@top: sorry about the side project, senior stuff to get done.

i agree with the white hot intensity of a thousand suns(10 points for the quote) and totally think that continuing the second book will be the best route toward being published. while i think that you've spent enough time away from the first book that relooking some things is good, they might pull you into the past when you try to go on in the second.

I found SFA from a webcomic and fell in love with it. the comments and arguments over it being the fantasy version of a high school, while it may be, is kinda the reason i liked it. being able to say, "i fit in that group" or "hehehe seen that before" is something you dont see in alot of independent books. being, as i hope you wrote it, a light read, it is a perfect book.

youve excelled where many MANY others have failed. to create a book that more than 4 people like. i mean how many other books do you read that you have a direct line to the authors or share ideas and praise them for their work?

so if the ramblins of a 17yo iowan mean anything then woohoo fer me. if they dont you get my full permission to laugh as hard and long as you wish at me(ill laugh too XD)

n i know im not that good at makin up long heartfelt speeches like felix or max, i still hope i helped jus a wee bit.

You get better at the speeches. Just keep writing.

Hey guys,

Thanks for your kind words. =) It means a lot to us. In the early days of SFA when we didn't know whether or not anyone out there would like it, JLY and I would count the visits to the website-- 3 visits this week, 7 visits the next week--and an email or a kind word from anyone was justification to sink another weekend into building this world instead of playing video games or going out. And it doesn't mean any less to us now. It's a huge boost to us to know that we're doing (or have done) something right enough to make people care about our little world.

You should also know that there's no way in the world that JLY and I would abandon the future of SFA. Book 2 will be written. You just might have to wait a couple months while we get book 1 in fighting shape first.

To give you an idea of how seriously we take SFA, you should know that every time JLY and I does something that could be even remotely life-threatening (from sky diving to a more traditional flight in a plane), we make each other promise to finish SFA if the worst should happen. Traditionally, the other briefly laments about how much work it will be to finish it alone, then relents and promises to finish the series. SFA is always in our hearts and minds, and we've never stopped talking about Book 2... We've just stopped making it our focus for the next few months.

But we do hear what you guys are saying, and we are being mindful of how long we take. Once JLY is through with her thesis, we're planning to hit book 1 hard and try to knock out all the revisions we have in mind in a couple of months if possible.

Also! It should be noted that many of the changes that we're planning to make are comments that our fans on this very forum have mentioned. JLY and I are well aware that we're far from perfect--even the conversation of the past few days about the power of the runes illustrates that there are things we should take another look at before we try to get a professional to judge us.

And overall, we know that SFA is great, and we haven't lost faith in it. We just want to make it the best that we're able to. Maxwell, just imagine if you could put the SFA feature film on the shelf next to the finished series. Okay, maybe that's far-fetched, but we can dream, right? Anyway, for that matter, we'll be able to write the second book much more quickly if we could turn SFA into a viable source of income. Right now, we write for the fun of it, we write so we can share it on the forum with all of you. But it's a lot of work for a recreational project. Those of you who were in the Tales Beta know that it's no small task to churn out a scene a week. And since we've spent so much of our time on SFA, we want to share it with as many people as we can. And, call us old-fashioned, but an agent seems to be the way to do that. Don't worry. We're not trying to change the heart of SFA, we're not even planning on rewriting everything--mostly just the prologues and some parts in the middle. And we'll be back to writing book 2 before you know it. Promise.

@ralton: we just let our thoughts speak out in a stream of consciousness. KL's 'rant' is a prime
example.


@KL: thank you for your feedback on the feedback on the recap of the situation that has held up th procedings.

Oh, dear sweet KL.  You have no idea what you've just gotten yourself into.

Rest assured that before I place a copy of the featured film on my bookshelf that I'll personally be stalking the streets of your home town, knocking on every three story mansion (as I assume you'll be living in one at this point) for you to sign it and every book in the series.

It should also be noted, that in this far-flung distant future you'll be living with JLY and KMRicker to save me the trouble of finding them as well.  Also, you'll invite me in for cocoa with marshmallows.

... and someone will be baking cookies for this delay.

Lots.  And lots.  of cookies.

- Max

Devotion is always good.

You know, Maxwell, I wouldn't be surprised if I were living in KL's house... We've at least promised to live in the same city if not the same street as each other. =)

Anyway, KL and I hope to start moving along with the rewriting of book one. It's just been challenging because both of us do have day jobs that have been particularly taxing these last couple months. We couldn't even really meet more than once a week to talk about the book in person, which is a drastic change from last year and the year before when we met three or four nights every week to get all our writing and marketing done.

Hopefully though, now that I'm almost done with this damn thesis (I hate APA formatting), we can rectify that and get on to the more important work of finishing SFA.

APA, not MLA?

I'm in education, I'm afraid, so that falls under the jurisdiction of my good old friends, the APA. Which is really a shame because I've done MLA my entire life.

Uck, I dunno what the APA is. I'd tear my hair out X_x

First up: I liked this second half to KMR's little story. And the faculty pic. More Please!

Girls, any possibility of posting any on the Tales Beta stuff? It might buy you some time and allow the rest of us who almost made it to see what they wrote. Its just an idea.

Now, I have to say something. Yes, graduation is coming but it only gets harder from here. I think you will fine that after school, you will have twice as much to do and half the time to do it in. So please, be ready for it. As for the agent thing, just make sure this person has their head screwed on straight and is working for you and not you working for them.

As for the feature-length movie, are we talking live-action or animated? Animated might be the way to go if you want to try it on a budget. I know I might give it a try for some of my stories.

Well, that's my 2 bits for now.  

You know not EVERYONE who got in to that thing was a girl right?

he was talking to the writers me thinks...

Mm, I'm glad you say that, TLoHiroshi; Ricker will definitely be glad to hear that as she was doing us the favor. =) And there'll be more pictures, though I'm not promising anytime soon.

KL and I are meeting tomorrow so we can discuss the Tales Beta and make more decisions. It'll be so nice to work without having to worry about something as mundane as school work.

As far as graduation, if it was intended for me, thanks for the advice. Luckily, this is my second time graduating, so I definitely have experience working and doing SFA. =)

And as for the movie, I've always been partial to animated, but I think if we even get a movie deal for either, I'd jump on it... Now who would be good actors for our cast? Hmm....

Samuel L. Jackson as Fell...it would totally work...

@Felix: YES!

@JLY: Actually, the grad comment was for you and KL, but it goes out to all who are graduating. There seem to be a few out there. I too have graduated twice, but I have two Bachelor degrees to show for it. I do hope KMR gets the Thief Major Faculty picture done some time soon. Its going to help me write both Step's and Dalton's stories. As for cast the movie, You and KL have to be in there somewhere, if only in the background. I think going the animated route would be easier because then you could get just about anyone to do the voices. Even somebody like me. KMR could do the character designs. Oh, there are possibilities there...

@Felix: I think Mr. Jackson is a little old to be playing Fell. However, I could see him being one of the Professors.

Hey, just my 2 bits...

Ah, thanks. Yes, I think if there ever was a live-action movie, we'd *have* to be in it. I personally would want to be one of Rai's groupies. =)

Emile Hirsch - Wraith Ravin (maybe a little to old but he has the kinda face i think)

bruce willis, susan sorandon, harvey keitel; those sund like good names for the teachers?

It's REALLY hard for me to imagine any of the characters as real people and not just anime people X_x

bah, just imagine that scene in the Ultimates when Nick Fury told us who would play him in a movie

True, I cried tears of joy when it happened years later. I bet Rai would say "Brad Pitt"

now that...would be awesome...like a million hotdogs...

I REALLY liked Rai's new entrance. The subtlety of the back and forth between the professor's revealed a lot about the teacher's as it did Rai. Much better then them being faceless heads giving out test questions.

phoey! drats those faulty computery things that do the thinking! dash it all! the site fell over again...
or not...
i would like to agree with top here. jolly good show.

Hey Felix, stop knocking over the site, will ya....

This version of Rai's interview was fine. I could go with either one. I don't have much else to say. Or maybe I'm just dead tired and can't think straight. In any case, I eagerly await next weeks entry.

Tales of Eastridge...I LIKE! MUST...HAVE...MORE...

And the question of the day is: What actually happened to Chant's flute?

You donb't want to know

But we do...we do!

Actually I have an idea what happened to it. If it involves cows, its can't be good...

the cow obviously ate it.

Are you sure....

hey, ive worked with people of the bovine persuasion, and they eat a lot. well they weren't people but you get the idea

Well, this one was a bit different. Not too sure what to make of it. Don't get me wrong, it was good. But the interchanging of Student and Storyteller left me a little confused at first. I guess I will need to read more...hint, hint...

I miss Chant

i remember this one...good ol' Topagae

Are the authors putting each story onto a photoshop image and then uploading each page independently?  I just recently dabbled into dreamweaver, and I can't seem to find a simple solution to simply putting up text over top of an image to make for an easy transition from MS word to Dreamweaver.

The only way I could do it was by creating an image with the words on them as a photoshop image.  I checked the site, and each page of the book appears to be its own image... is this what the authors are doing?

My god, that's a lot of work.

... Like... Damn...

That would be a yes to Maxwell. Though, it's KL doing all the work really.

X_X sheesh, you really should just write a script for it.

Considered it.

If it's not too much trouble, I could do it for you.

trying to sneak on to the design team eh top? very, very, sneaky.

Haha , no, I just feel useless with this CSC degree cause I'm in management -_-

CSC?

Computer Science

hmmm.

go work for the Sith Lords Restoration Project.

Ugh... they have a terrible dental plan.  They've got worse teeth than the japanese

No. My time is sadly mostly taken up, I just like the SFA people enough to write a simple script.

drats, well okay.

Quelyk, that silly goose, the only person with the gall and resources to combine science and magic is Victor Von Doom, and he had to own a whole country first

sigh... i miss FS...im crying on the inside...

Hooray!!  Book 2 returns!

Question. Am I going to have to buy book one. Again?

no you silly gooses, this is book one

Not me  The shipping to Canada was attrocious

Well, okay... maybe if it was published I might give 'er a go.  But then I would hope they'd distribute in Canada

bah...canadia...all you have is hockey, moose, syrup, and mayonnaise on burgers in the place of ketchup..bah

I got my first one off amazon

So did I, but they made me pay some ridiculous fee to ship it up to Canada

Lame. I guess they'll be publishing another edition XD

everybody needs money. except Communists. they need capitalism.

Indeedily.

isnt being capitalist fun...

Another chapter!  How exciting...

Once again, the story (especially involving the thieves) is imaginative and creative with that little bit of witty humor which makes SFA great.  There were, however, a few things I noticed which I thought could be fixed up before the final print.

There was a lot less clever description and too much of just 'telling' us what it all looks like.  For example, "noble young ladies elegantly dressed in gowns that contrasted with the other students' humbler clothing" is telling us that these women stand out.  I think it might sound better if you showed the contrast, rather than just telling it right out.  Also, you could remove the 'noble' because your description should show it.

Example:  Rai followed his gaze to where a cluster of young ladies dressed in gowns.  The radiant jewels and dazzling smiles made the other students in the hall look positively common." (haha, a pun)

Another instance of this, which I think is worlds more important is the introduction of Averi, or who I assume is Averi.

"There, in the center, he saw her.  The sunlight caught her fair hair, making it almost a halo around her.  She was beautiful."

I think that you tried to keep some of these sentences simple to make a statement.  This character is important.  He saw her.  She was beautiful.  You wanted this to make an impact on the reader which I can respect.  However, I think you should try to describe her appearance in a way that can allow the reader to understand WHY it is that this girl is important to Rai.  What is it about her beauty that captivates him?

Averi is a strong, independent and defiant character, so you might try to incorporate that in her appearance.  "There, in the center, he saw her.  The sunlight caught her golden hair like tamed fire. Her kind smile, although not noticeably dissimilar from the others', hid a yearning unmistakably rare.  She was beautiful, though he could not say why."

I'm not a good writer, but you can see what i'm getting at. Rai, himself, has a desire to be free of his past and family.  And he can see that in Averi which is suggested with the word 'yearning'.  She has a yearning to escape.  He has a yearning to escape his past.  Maybe that's what attracts him to her.  Don't say it outright, obviously, or it might give the rest of the story away...

At the very least, don't compare her to an angel with a 'halo' because that sort of thing is well overdone and cliche.  I used 'fire' just as an example, but even that is kind of overused.  "tamed fire" where fire might suggest that she's combative, the 'tamed' shows that she's being oppressed.  "Snow" might suggest that she's gentle.  You'll have to think of the proper word to suggest her character.

What I did like, was the line, "He'll have to create some other opportunity".  The paragraph leading up to this reminds me of me in high school.  It's exactly what a younger boy might think.  You can't just be another boy saying hi.  You have to wait for an opportunity.  But in this case, he's going to 'create' an opportunity which is sneaky and show the initiative inherent in Rai.

I hope this helps!

@max: i respectfully disagree. if one is to throw all of the big descriptive guns early you dont have the 'reserves' for when you need them close to each other. shrug

Too true, although I wouldn't call that big descriptive guns... I can get -really- wordy

you are rather loquaciously verbose

so the dashing rogue got to see his princess. sigh...teen love stories...that unmistakable taste of bile slowly rising as i remember i was that stupid...sigh...stupid youth...sigh...i feel old...sigh...

Teenage love does bring out the stupidity. Heady, wonderful, exciting, yet stupid.

so we have the horse boy and the fire dodgers, so exciting!

a comic? oh you are witty!

I thought it was fine. It would be also be nice if we could get one a few pages long. Now we just need an animated short. Keep rockin' KM.

by any chance was only me that felt sorry for Fell?

bah he can take it. he is the chosen of Bessie.

They should take poetry more serious, asheley from mass effect recite poetry and still kick ass

i do poetry.

What kind of poetry?

all kinds. want a sample of on floating around the internet?

'On Roars and Rain'

"The night is silent, still.
The quiet breeds unease in my mind.
My heartbeat raps a tattoo in my skull.
The crickets seem to roar their chirp.
Then suddenly, the roars silence,
And suddenly, my heartbeat slows,
And suddenly, my unease is lifted away
By the soft pitter patter
Of rain against the windows. "

an important part missing is the delivery, but alas it is just text.

Felix, i don't know if it's only me, after all i suck at english poetry (wich is rather funny as I'm quite good with it in portuguese) but i feel as something more than just the delivery is missing

i did a live poetry class so i know what this is missing. but yeah...

well to be fair if wisteria is right and he is indeed afraid of water i think that, wraith will most likely go secretly nuts in that waterfall, now about the story in itself i find the cleric insight quite nice specially the fact that we see another tidbit of info about Allora i always find any info about your mythology always a rewarding thing

also if it's somewhere in the book show that he is indeed afraid of water my bad, since the day i bought the book i tend to skip pages to the part i like most (mostly fell yep im a sucker for his kind of life and avery thief moments)

Well, its been pretty quiet around here. What's up with that???

Looking good KMR. Please, make more.

In fact, I had a thought. Instead of writing up a new version of book 1, why not make a graphic novel of book 1 using KMR's illustrations and include the changes in that? I think most people (like myself) who already have the book would be more open to buying it. I know I might be. Just a thought.

id buy that for a dollar. or more really. but still. do. it. now.

For the record the Dollar ratio to Real (brazillian currency) is normally 2x1 "one dollar is something close to two reals", but even if i have to pay for two illustrated books to be able to read one, I still would gladly do it so, I second to that idea.

REGROWTH! it is a much sounder way to fix teeth.

Score another one for KMR. I really do think a graphic novel would be a good thing.

Regrowth or repair...The jury is still out...

Regrowth definitely! I agree with Wisteria... and Lyre. Wait no no repair is better.

*Sigh* It's good to be back.

Welcome back. As you can see, things are a bit quiet around here. Please feel free to liven things up...

Loving the "Meanwhiles" and I am lovin' what I am seein' in the new posts.  Keep it up ladies!

BTW Clerics FTW

Moo.