I always thought it was interesting how varied peoples opinions can be on this, what do you all think is appropriate? I personally try and leave around 15% or so...

10% for me....

But it really depends on the service. I don't feel obliged to tip if it was  bad service.

In countries like Aust, doesn't the GST cover tips? 

GST does not cover tips but Australia, mercifully, does not have the same ridiculous attitude to tipping as the US does.  Nevertheless I'd usually tip a taxi driver, a waiter (15% in cash) in a good restaurant, but never tip a barman.  I also tip Big Issue sales people.

That's 'cause wait staff in the US are on the minimum wage, and it's assumed that tips will make up the difference.  It's nearly obligatory to tip 15%, which I usually do unless the service is terrible.  In Australia, I believe the wait staff have a better hourly wage, but I still tip something to acknowledge good service.

In the US I'll tip a minimum of 15%, because that is pretty much what these guys live off - the minimum wage is pretty much non-existent. In Australia, I'll tip if the service warrants as the staff get a higher wage.

I know about the minimum wage issue in the States but everybody seems to be looking for a tip and there is a widespread illusion that fast service is good service, or upselling is good service: "...My name is Mandy/Randy and I'll be serving you today, I have absolutely no personality and I want you out of here as fast as humanly possible, can I get you some bread for the table, would you like iced water or mineral water, would you like a salad with that, wht kind of dressing do you want, what kind of sauce do you want, will I take that for you, would you like to see the menu again, how is everything today sir, let me tell you about our specials today sir, will I supersize you, how about a side of onions sir, here's your check you take your time and I'll come back for it when you're ready sir, you have a nice day and fill out our survey while you're waiting goodbye..."  It's no wonder they have so many shootings.

Breathing is very important. If you don't breathe it really makes you feel like shooting things. It's no wonder they have so many shootings.

It's no wonder they have so many shootings.

I realised I didn't take a breath when reading that monologue and was ready to shoot someone at close! 

I tip 10 per cent at restaurants/cafes. If the service is great and I have had a fab time I might tip a bit more. I don't really know what I tip cabbies as a percentage but I always round up depending on how I feel. It's probably around 5 to 10 per cent ...

When I waitressed I tended to get 'pity tips' too. I worked at a bar with table service and I can't tell you how many times I leant down to talk to someone, forgetting I was carrying a drink-laden tray. Oooppps. I was always very apologetic and the people I wet seemed to always be very nice and understanding. I was always amazed when they would tip me well. I didn't last long. maybe three months...

Better? Edited in some line breaks... Maybe what I should have said was "Service rocks and I'm happy to pay for it? Hockey's cool. Beer"

In fact I'll say that again and even consider deleting my original post, "Service rocks and I'm happy to pay for it? Hockey's cool. Beer"

NOOOOo Don't delete your post!

I found it entertaining... even without the line breaks! 

Hey. Thats kind of cool. Didn't even realise I could edit posts until just then... What's the etiquette involved there? Taking something back after you've said it? It's like being able to change time...

hmmmm.... interesting one.

I used to be on a forum where they took edit and delete away because ppl would say something mean or inflatory, and then edit or remove the comment when others commented on it.

I tend to edit to make it readable. I don't delete unless it's straight away, or a serious mistake - like a wrong link or image or something

You guys? 

Sometimes I feel compelled to edit spelling mistakes but I've always left posts on - however controversial, boring etc..! I reckon we all have our moments and it helps entertain everyone else. I would feel dishonest in a way - if I took off something because I was embarrassed or uncomfortable about an outburst I had made (or caused!)....

I also liked your post Richard. Bring it back! 

Oh! You took it away Richard!!!

Now Kasta and I will look delusional talking abt something that isn't there

I don't tip. I don't believe in it....

Why should I give someone more money for doing their job properly? It's up to the employer to recognise and reward a good employee.

The fact that they get paid bugger all without tips is not my problem.... A fair days work for a fair days pay... that's the australian way.

Isn't it chicken or the egg to a certain extent?

Do they not get paid well cos employers assume them to make tips, or do they get tips cos we know they don't get paid enough?

I mean c'mon, it's a hard job, they get some really bad customers, and where would we be without em?? 

...and that'd work if all employers recognised and rewarded good employees, or if everyone had the option of changing employer due to shitty wages and conditions, so maybe in a world with no poverty and fair IR laws, I'd consider not tipping...

In the real world however:

a female casual worker gets no maternity leave when she has a baby and if sacked can do nothing about it due to the abolishment of unfair dismissal laws

a bar worker gets a shitty wage based around how many hours they work based aroubd whose ass they've had to kiss recently and then has to buy their own uniform and equipment out of it

etc. etc.

If you're not in that position maybe it would be worth being a little considerate of those who are. I'm not saying you should tip, merely that you should maybe be a little thankful for what you have, and not quite so dismissive of those who have not...

I tend to agree....

No-one is making them be a waitress...She chose to get pregnant in a non-financially stable environment.....

Should I also tip my garbage man?

If it's a shitty system (chicken & egg) then aren't you supporting an unjust system by tipping???

Like it'll change if we stopped tipping?

well it definitely won't.. if you continue... should I stop recycling also?

No-one is making them be a waitress...She chose to get pregnant in a non-financially stable environment.

One of the problems I have with Tangler as a whole is that the dialog box is simply too small to faciltate my being able to usefully edit a response, but for the sake of brevity let me try: " Martina met Larry - she was an Account Director at an advertising agency and he was a lawyer in a pharmaceutical firm.  They had a great life, they had love, they had lust and then they had children.  Martina had a boy and a girl, the latter was autistic and needed special care, none of which was supported by the government.  Larry couldn't cope and then he left/fell under a train/met Maisy/was diagnosed with cancer...he's gone now and Martina (who had lost her job while on unpaid maternity leave and can't leave her children with anyone because her family live in Ulaanbaatar) works nights in a restaurant just to make ends meet.  The moral of this story is don't have any babies at all at all at all."

But think abt it.... how will us not tipping make the wait staff's life any easier?

At least with recycling, every little bit you do helps.... even if it's just reducing your own bills  

maybe the wait staff will get fed up with such a shitty job and get a better one...

The assumption here being they have a choice?

It's still not my problem if people have relationship problems Rira... I give to charities... not to charity cases...

you always have a choice Dek.. no matter what you do there are always choices...

I also give money to beggars...

which refutes my first claim... but there you have it...

No Mitch, you're giving money in exchange for a service they're providing you

yeah which is detailed on the bill. I don't have to be guilted into giving them more money just for doing their job.

They aren't sitting on their arses expecting you to throw money at them

Why guilt? If you appreciate their service, tip em. If you don't, then just pay the bill

why should I be expected to suppliment their wages?

I don't tip anyone else? why should waiters be any different?

I don't tip the dry cleaner....

or the garbo...

They are both shitty jobs with no benefits...

noone tips me....

But that's just what I said, no guilt and expectations involved.... just do as you see fit.

I will more or less tip anyone who provides me good service

Why guilt? If you appreciate their service, tip em. If you don't, then just pay the bill

The guilt is that Rira is saying that they get shitty pay so you should tip them out of pity...

ah... okay

no...I've re-read what I said and I  think you are either misunderstanding me or putting words into my metaphorical mouth.  The question of tipping is one of personal choice but the point I can't agree with is your assertion about wider choices: I don't think real life is as simple that we can equivocally say that someone made a bad choice - circumstances often conspire to put us in bad (or good) situations and we all do our best to influence them: but the dice still rolls and what it means for the hypothetical waitress is, to me at least, that she does not seek our "pity" but she certainly deserves more latitude than that expressed by the opinion-as-fact assertion that she chose to get pregnant.

This is very entertaining you lot! I'm sitting on the fence,  eating my lollipop, swinging my legs.. 

I love eating out!  I love being waited on, and I love not having to clean up the "mess" afterward. 

I have worked a waitressing job, and after that one month swore I would NEVER WORK FOOD SERVICE AGAIN!  I tend to be a big tipper, because I know that IF most of those servers had another option they would NOT be working food service at all.  It's 15% to start and grows or shrinks according to my experience with the server.  

I have only left a "BAD" tip once... When the waitress talked to me like I was a three year old... she got a penny under a glass of water.

I've done that penny thing once, too!  It was at a Denny's near my house, over 15 years ago.  I've never been back there since.

I suppose I was so offended (to the point of leaving a "dirty tip") because my husband and I were dining with friends, and I am well into my 30's.  After I placed my order, the waitress looks me up and down and says "Oh sweetie, that is alot of food.  You don't want to be wasteful do you?"  

It doesn't sound that bad when written out, but at the time it was highly embarrassing, as she said it loud enough for all the people in the place to hear her, causing a number of them to give me the "once over" look.  I tend to be very shy IRL, so I didn't appreciate being singled out for attention in such a manner.  Plus, I so totally cleaned my plate... and did a bad thing... ... as she walked past our table just before we asked for the check, I picked up my empty plate, and licked it.. just to drive home the point that I am a grown woman who doesn't like being told how much I should or should not eat by a perfect stranger who's only responsibility is to bring me my food, and refill my drink glass before I can make "ice music" in the emptiness.. lol.  My husband has never taken me to that same diner again.  Not that I really complain much, I don't usually like "chain" resturaunts. 

Is the penny thing like a known response to bad service? I guess it speaks volumes.

Just as Rira should speak volumes and write a very long book about his thoughts on real philosophy. Hmmm, now there's a group I'd join.  

Thanks Mick

Coinage as a tip is generally considered a "slight" amoung wait staff (at least here in the States)... It's a manner of saying "You're service skills suck!" without actually having to say anything at all.

oh wow! I had no idea....

Still use pennies in the States? 

And paper dollar notes as well.  Unlike Australia, where the GST is included in the price, so WYSIWYG for price, here sales tax (if applicable) is added on at time of purchase so we still have pennies.  So does Canada.

ahhhhhhhh........ I see......

I was sad when Singapore took away its $1 note... they still have the $2. Not sure abt the 1c 

Wish I'd been there to see you lick the plate. I would have joined in to help really make the point

hahahahaha

hehe Richard... it would have been nice to have had the moral support.  As it was all my dinner mates were sitting there staring at me like I had grown a second head or something.. It was childish, and I know it was, but DANG! it felt good to be bad...

hahahaha

That's great! 

After living in Australia for a while, you discover that paper $1 notes suck, and that coins are much better for things like train tickets as they go into the vending machine so much easier.  I've missed trains here trying to feed mangled dollar notes into the machine.  We have $1 coins,  but they don't circulate freely.  I may get one once a year.

It does take getting used to $ 1 and $ 2 coins if you're used to paper notes, however.  If you buy something for, say $ 1.50, and pay with a $ 5 note, here you'll get back three $1 notes and two quarters.  In Australia, you get a heap of change, and no notes back, prompting the question, "Where did all my money go?"  It takes a while to get used to that!.

There was recent talk about the $1 coin being put into circulation here, but I have yet to see one.

Totally agree with you Erik!

Takes a while to see coins as real money!

At the same time, I love finding out I have $10-$20 more than I thought I initially had before I count the gold coins i have 

yeah i have a nasty habit of throwing all my loose change into my bag randomly. so on days when the atm is just too far away i reach deep into my bag and can quite safely get between 10-20 dollars worth of coins.

on the hind sight, ppl can never understand why my handbag is always so heavy...:P

I like the gold coins.   They're also good to take to the beach in your pocket, as is our plastic notes.   Soggy dollars are really sad!.

The one coin in Australia that I loathe is the 20 cent piece.  It's far too heavy to carry, and you need heaps of them to buy anything.  Can't even put them in the ticket machine for any reasonable journey as they won't take them.  I have two money boxes at home that I put my loose change in everyday, and when it builds up, I count out the 20C pieces, put them in a plastic bag, and take them to the "cash only" window at Hornsby station.  They love me when I pay for a weekly return ticket with 10 bucks in coins and the balance in notes.   Hey, maybe Howard can run on the "reform of heavy coinage" platform and regain the lead from Rudd.  

My 2 cents (Iam an american living in Europe... just so you know where I'm coming from): Tipping in the USA pisses me off. I am of the opinion that you *tip* when the service is exceptional. However, in the USA it's practically mandatory (and, in fact, is simply included in the bill in major tourist cities like NYC). So waiters/waitresses can just about throw your food at you and still expect the 15%. Grrrr :/

Good article.

Yeah, that's fine, but they can't live on the minimum wage without the tips, so you need to pay one way or the other.

Well, that's the problem! Bingo. They need to pay them real wages. It's just silly the way it's set up now. Me thinks.

Chimi - You have hit the nail on the head!!

Is it also true that some employers take a percentage of tips?

I do know that some do

terrible

In the states you have to report your tips to the taxing authorities, or a certain amount of the restaurant turnover will be imputed to you.  Nice, huh?

what a joke.

They'll get ya at every turn!