Discuss
Topics
So N and myself are in the midst of going through CD w/a fine tooth comb. We are hashing out Bills summons to Lorena. I can post our dialogs.
Sent: Oct 19 2008, 2:45 pm EDT
Subject: Notes on beginning of CD 4 - Interrogating Sookie pt. 1
Hz's post: Then we get to the point where Eric asks if Sookie knows what Bill's special project was - (I'll concede that at this point he doesn't know what it is, but suspects that Sookie knows more than she's saying).
That's when he mentions - and dismisses the notion of using torture - (in his mind it was never a real option, but we've got a glimpse of what Sookie is thinking about this - and she feels it is a real threat).
Then he drops the bombshell (at least that's what it is to Sookie) - "It doesn't make that much difference if you knew what Bill was doing behind our backs or not."
It is at this moment that she realizes that she has Bill to blame for her being in danger.
Pam notes her reaction, and Eric responds that he noticed as well, and it wasn't the one he expected.
I think Eric expected that once he implied that she conspired or colluded with Bill to keep secrets from Eric, that she would get either nervous or defensive - instead her reaction was one of shock, which surely informed Eric that she had any idea that Bill was involved in anything behind Eric's back.
Sure, Eric knows that Bill is working for the Queen - but he doesn't know to what extent, or what project he may be working on.
It's easy to see how this would be seen by Eric as "going behind his back" especially since the Queen was going to hold him (Eric) responsible if Bill or his project couldn't be produced - which was highly unfair of her.
It was like saying, "I have a person who is working on a secret something for me, and it is due at a certain time. If it isn't delivered by that time, I'm holding you responsible, even though you don't know what the project is or anything about it (so if something really were to go wrong, you wouldn't even know what you're looking for), and since that person is working directly for me there's no reason that he would share any revelations about what he's doing or where he's going with you."
- Yeah, I can see where this would feel to Eric like folks going behind his back.
Sookie then mentions about being unhappy with the torture option, and how she's missing Bill, and that she expects them to tell her why he lied about the trip, if they even knew, and reminds them that Pam said that she had bad news.
Pam, notices that Sookie is "leaking again" and observes that she thinks that Sookie should know the truth before going to Miss., and also that maybe knowing the truth would convince her to tell what she knows if she is hiding info on Bill's behalf.
Eric then nods curtly and tells Pam and Chow to wait outside - but before Pam leaves she gives Eric a sharp look.
[I take this to mean that she's underscoring that he'd better come clean with Sookie - or it could be that her look is reprimanding him for not telling her earlier - perhaps Pam's own form of female solidarity.]
End CD 4
____________
Sent: Oct 19 2008, 3:05 pm EDT
Subject: Notes on beginning of CD 5 - Interrogating Sookie pt 2
Hz's Post: Eric notices that Sookie is about to faint, and tells her not to - (a lot of good that seems to do on the surface of it, but once he says it, she makes more of an effort to focus and stay together).
Then he turns the chair that Pam was sitting in so that he can sit across from Sookie, and he takes her hands (she observes that if he wanted to he could effortlessly cause her great harm - but instead, he only lightly touches her - and I think that he keeps up some form of physical contact with her through out most of this scene).
Then he starts trying to put her at ease ("I don't enjoy seeing you afraid of me" - it is interesting to note that she is in a state of mind that what she notices is his cologne - and can identify it.) and reminds her of how he's always been fond of her and attracted to her.
I think he is telling her this, mostly to convince her of the truth of the statement that he doesn't want her to be afraid of - that is a theme that runs through a lot of this scene.
She reminds him again that the torture remark didn't make her feel all that sexy, and he retorts that it really seemed to turn Chow on (introducing to Sookie the concept that some take pleasure in the pain of others).
**Side note
It is interesting to note that at this point she realizes that she should be shaking, but isn't. I think that this is telling. Her body, her instincts, below the level of her conscious mind, is telling her that she has nothing to fear. Which is why even after she says that Eric will only protect her "if it is convenient" she already knows that that statement is false and unfair. I think it is also why Eric seems so offended, he knows that Sookie isn't listening to what her whole essence knows to be true - that really, on some level she knows exactly where she stands with Eric - even if she hasn't admitted it to herself.
Okay, back to the flow:
Then she asks him to cut to the chase, and tell her straight up if he is her friend or not, and if he plans on torturing her or not.
His reaction both verbal and nonverbal - "Sookie, you are too much," - both say, to some degree "You just don't get what's in front of your face".
I think his reaction is reflecting his exasperation that she hasn't seemed to realize that if he wasn't her friend they wouldn't even be having this conversation. And the frustration that she hasn't realized the nature of his character is such, that he would never cause her harm deliberately (which is one of the reasons why he didn't want to tell her - didn't want the words that hurt her to be coming from his lips).
The fact that he takes the time, and cares, says a lot.
He then starts chiding her and telling her that he isn't going to torture her - that it would ruin the beautiful skin that expects to one day see.
Then he goes on to tell her that she won't always fear him, nor will she always be so devoted to Bill.
Then he says that there's something he must tell her - and her response is to tightly hold on to his hand as he gives her the bad news. He twines his fingers in hers (perhaps to give comfort and support?) and she in response squeezes his hand tightly (as you would to a good friend prior to getting some bad news).
Even as she has questioned his friendship to her, she instinctively reaches for it and accepts it - cause it is there, and Eric offers it freely.
End notes 5
_______
Sent: Oct 19 2008, 10:16 pm EDT
Subject: Response to your notes 1,2, 3, 4 and 5
Hz: I think that Eric contacting her first had more to do with arranging for her protection once he realized that Bill may have met with foul play ..
L: This is makes sense. I think this is the rational, explanatory reason completely. I also think there is just a fundamental character reason. I sent an email about my thoughts about this too - kind of- it's the analog bit. Have a look and tell me what you think. I think it was in the last email I sent.
Hz: She showers (and gets mad at Bill - throwing the hairbrush [it just occurred to me that she throws the symbol of an activity that Bill does that calms her]).
L: Good catch!! Duh. I missed that one too!
Hz: [I am a bit puzzled about Sookie's statement in response to Bill being broken - that "if he's already broken then they won't need me"; and Pam's response that that isn't necessarily the case. Another thing to think on further.
L: Maybe it's Pam's womanly intuition. Maybe she thinks Lorena would grab Sookie anyway for various reasons. Or - b'c it's not clear what's going on, Pam, having insight to their (vamps) devious and twisty ways, is just commenting on all the various reasons they could come up w/for wanting Sookie. For her telepathy themselves, to hurt Bill, to hurt Sookie even...who knows?
Hz: It is at this moment that she realizes that she has Bill to blame for her being in danger.
L: AH! I get it. I wasn't seeing it b'c - well, of course Bill is to blame and I just assumed she knew that pretty immediately (as I did when I read it). It's not the actual - behind the backs - statement (b'c she did know he was doing something secretive behind Eric's back and she is practiced at hiding her emotions) BUT that it's all Bill's fault and she was mourning his absence so much - she didn't realize the enormity of his secret.
I love the idea of Pam's female solidarity. Nice.
Hz: I think he is telling her this, mostly to convince her of the truth of the statement that he doesn't want her to be afraid of - that is a theme that runs through a lot of this scene.
L: Yes - the theme - your so right. Also the theme you talk about in your side note that Sookie doesn't want to believe what she knows to be true about Eric. Hence her thinking he had a bombastic approach to bending her to his will.
Hz: to turn Chow on (introducing to Sookie the concept that some take pleasure in the pain of others).
L: Ahhh- I see! That is a GREAT observation. Oooh subtle subtext & foreshadowing.
Hz: ...Sookie isn't listening to what her whole essence knows to be true - that really, on some level she knows exactly where she stands with Eric - even if she hasn't admitted it to herself.
L: I know I referenced this already but here is my orginal note......Oooh I like this. Geez! How the heck did you see that? Yoda.
Hz: He twines his fingers in hers (perhaps to give comfort and support?)
L: Well, not only does he obviously love having physical contact w/Sookie but I am starting to think he likes comforting her. I am also realizing that Eric is more human than I consciously registered. He has very natural human tendencies. Either that or Sookie's presence brings it out in him naturally. She has that effect on him. Hence his immediate preoccupation with her and his "feelings" that he mentions at the end of the healing scene....?
Hz: Even as she has questioned his friendship to her, she instinctively reaches for it and accepts it - cause it is there, and Eric offers it freely.
L: nice .
CD onwards: Eric offers friendship, needs comfort, touching ...
Hz: Then he says that there's something he must tell her - and her response is to tightly hold on to his hand as he gives her the bad news. He twines his fingers in hers (perhaps to give comfort and support?) and she in response squeezes his hand tightly (as you would to a good friend prior to getting some bad news).
Even as she has questioned his friendship to her, she instinctively reaches for it and accepts it - cause it is there, and Eric offers it freely.
*He twines his fingers in hers (perhaps to give comfort and support?
L: Well, not only does he obviously love having physical contact w/Sookie but I am starting to think he likes comforting her.
I am also realizing that Eric is more human than I consciously registered. He has very natural human tendencies.
Either that or Sookie's presence brings it out in him naturally. Thoughts about this?
She seems to have that effect on him. Hence his immediate preoccupation with her and his –feelings- that he mentions at the end of the healing scene....?
Eric seems to genuinely need contact to help calm and comfort him. I bring this up in DTTW, in his negotiations.
I have just made that connection though that he is anxious about what Bill is doing behind his back in CD.
IN DTTW, he is anxious about the negotiations for him. Both times he seeks physical friction with Sookie.
In both scenes as well, he rubs his face on her.
What do you think that means?
I did think maybe that too, was foreshadowing Sookies 'Vamps are like lions' speech ....
Although, he is more like a pussycat than a lion when it comes to Sookie.
Maybe CH was subtly trying to point that out to us.
What do you think?
Lets pull this again in future books when something is causing anxiety for one or both of them. How Eric reacts.
There is a disconnect in this book that maybe you can help me sort through.
Specifically, when Eric is interrogating/entreating/intimidating Sookie into going to Mississippi Sookie is very careful not to let any of the vampires know that she is aware of the existence of the Queen of Louisiana which is why she asks the silly question of Eric if he is the King of Louisiana -- he explains that he is the Sheriff but he never says there is a Queen.
However, when they are alone in discussion a few pages later Sookie mentions the Queen but Eric doesn't call her on this -- I re-read the passage many times and I cannot figure out if;
A) Eric missed the slip by Sookie (I doubt it since Eric doesn't miss much of anything), or
Eric caught it but didn't say anything to see what else Sookie might let slip, or C) It was an honest continuity mistake by the author -- she has made mistakes before like switching the animal that Debbie Pelt shifted into (originally a lynx and later a fox).
Oooh - good catch. I am on my way home so I will check it out and get back to you. We still have a lot of our discussion's to post on CD and the interrogation scene is a big one. Do remember or have the page to hand so I can check it out? TY!
CD: Prelude the the Big Night At Josphine's
Before the big night at Josephine’s Eric shows up at Alcides. Alcide asks Eric about the dead body. Eric is speechless. Alcide then tells Eric of the “blood offense” on Sookie. Eric is upset, he mentions it would have been a pleasure to have bitten him (when Sook asks if he was guilty of killing JF).
Eric surprised again when he hears how they dealt w/JF.
Eric tells Alcide & Sook he will be at the club. Both are surprised & feel it’s risky. They press him as to why. He gives a reasonable excuse.
Personally – I believe he is worried about Sookie. He is her (their) backup. As he was in LDID. I think he realizes the enormous danger Sookie seems to get herself into & it’s esp. b’c of her involvement w/the vamps. As sheriff - he’s responsible for her.
He excuses the 2 of them & immediately offers to heal her wounds. Sook rightly tells him no, it would be too obvious. He agrees, displeased w/himself for asking.
He grips Sook’s hand looks directly at her. He confesses to Sook he’s searched everywhere he could & he thinks Bills dead. “Finally Dead”. Hmmm... Interesting comment.
Sookie: “I felt like he smacked me in the middle of the forehead w/a Sledgehammer. My knees folded, & if he hadn’t moved quick as lightning, I’d have been on the floor........he gathered me up in a bundle on his lap.”
Eric: “I’ve upset you too much. I was trying to be practical, and instead I was.....”
S: “Brutal”.
“I felt a tear trickle out of each eye. Eric’s tongue darted out, and I felt a tiny trace of moisture as he licked up my tears. Vampires seemed to like any body fluid, if they can’t get blood. That didn’t particularly bother me. I felt glad someone was holding me in a comforting way, even if it was Eric. I sunk deep into my misery while Eric spent a few moments thinking.”
- This reminds me of when Pam comes to talk to Sookie about Eric & Bill. She wipes Sook’s tear away & sticks her thumb in her mouth. Sookie notes that’s she thinks it was meant in an affectionate way but was icked out by it. Thoughts??
Eric then talks about searching Russell’s....
“I think you must tell me what you know about Bill’s project”
To me, the reason he says this is b’c if Bill is at Russell’s, Eric needs to know everything. He knows, he needs to know why Russell would want him so badly.
Now here is a true P&P moment. Sookie misunderstands E’s intentions & is furious:
“Is that what all this holding & niceness is all about? You want to get some information out of me?”
“Eric jumped up himself & did his best to try & loom over me”.
This is interesting too – it shows that Sookie doesn’t take his intimidation all that seriously. Down deep – she knows not to be afraid.
Pg 154:
E: “I think Bill is dead, and I am trying to save my own life, and yours, you stupid woman.”
Sookie notes: “Eric sounded just as furious as I was”.
She tells him she will find Bill. He explains that it’s going to be harder b’c Russell is gay. He mentions that he cannot makes eyes at him b’c it would be too obvious....”A vampire mating w/another – that’s unusual.”
“Maybe his 2nd, Betty joe would be interested but she is vampire too & the same rule applies. I can’t tell you how unusual Bill’s fascination w/Lorena is. In fact, we disapprove of vampires loving others of our kind.”
So right there – he tells Sook Bill loves Lorena.
Also – it speaks to just HOW many freakin’ prejudices & rules the vampires have, even against one another. There are a lot of limiting belief’s it seems.
There’s more discussion & Sookieis reminded by Eric that they have had Bill for days.
She notes that he looks at her w/pity & that scared her more than anything.
And to me – this is a the end capper to the whole P&P moment. Sookie’s pride is piqued when she feels she is being pitied and it frightens her the most.
Thoughts on all of the above?
page 139:
"Are you the king of Louisiana?" I asked Eric, giddy with all my mental effort to keep varying stories straight. I was laughing so hard that it was all I could do to keep upright in the chair. Possibly there was a note of hysteria.
"Oh no," he said. "I am the sheriff of Area 5."
That really set me off.
Page 50
"If I am understanding you, Bill was working on a project for the ..." I felt a bubble of laughter rising, and I ruthlessly supressed it. "For the queen of Louisiana, " I finished. "But you fifn't know about it. Is this right?"
Eric stared at me for a long moment, while he thought about what to tell me. "She told me she had work for Bill to do," he said, "but not what it was, or why he had to be the one to do it, or when it would be complete."
*********************************
Eric never tells Sookie about Queen, she lets it out that she knows -- what is your theory about this? It drove me nuts when I first read this slip and I reread the section at least 4 times before I went on with it.
OK that is a really great catch. Really great.
Pg: 39 Sookie reminds herself that she isn't supposed to know about the Queen & I can't find any page up until 50 in which they mention that there is a Queen to Sookie.
So my thoughts: OK, so this makes sense.
I asked Nancy a while ago if she believed that Eric was bending Sookie to his will during the interrogation like Sookie feels he was (afterwards)....was he serious about the torture, etc...
We pretty much figured he wasn't. Much of it was for show - for Chow & Pam's benefit. I will try & find the dialog. It might even be in the threads I have alreayd posted above.
Anyway - we had a discussion abotu how Sookie's body betray's her mind. She wants to believe she is scared of Eric or that he is being threatening or manipulative but down deep, she knows different. She sould be shaking during this scene but she's not (see above threads). She should be uncomfortable w/him (@ the orgy) but she's not. She trusts him, etc....
At the end of this book, when they get into the fight after the gas station incident - he tells Sookie that both he & Russell would have given her anything she wanted if she just handed over the DB. Which proves all along he knew she had it.
WHICH - ties in to your catch here, IMO, of how & when he knew Sookie was lying for Bill.
This is also a very subtle nod by CH that Eric had no intention of hurting Sookie in anyway. His threats were empty.
That's what I am thinking right now. Now if only Sookie would realize it.....<sigh>.
So do you think that Eric's feelings for Sookie and his manuevering to protect her started much earlier and were more extensive than Sookie is aware? Clearly, if he just lusted after her or saw her as a conquest, he would not have allowed her so much leeway -- he can be very scary.
Now here's another question, do we think CH will ever allow Sookie to realize the extent of Eric's feelings for her?
Oh yes - much earlier. He was intrigued from the beginning. N & I have a LOT of great Eric & Bill observations. I will post them for you. But from our POV, Eric isn't scary...at all. That was Bill manipulating Sookie to believe so. The books are from Sook's perspective so in the beginning - we have a huge amount of Bill's influence & manipulating of Sookie. Bill calls Eric a "rogue" but in fact it's Bill who is the rogue. It would be impossible for Eric to be as old as he is & be in the position that he is in if he was. Eric is neither "dishonest" nor "unprincipled" which is what the definition of a rogue is. That's been proven by CH time & time again (also - Eric is the Mr. Darcy character in this series).
In fact, by the end of Book 2 she instinctively knows that Eric will keep her safe & she trusts him. The little speech before she get's into the car. He tells her "that's crazy' & she says: "I don't think so". Considering her thought - about what happened ot her as a child & her fears about going to the party - that she trusts Eric so implictly to guard her & keep her safe - that is huge right tthere. That is telling the reader something big about Eric 9& Sookie's thoughts & feelings towards him) but it is sort of subtle.
Earlier, in her room - Eric tells her she decieves herself. She wonders what Eric knows about her that she doesn't. She decided to stow that thought away & not deal w/it.
I will move this post in the Eric & Bill section when I have that up.....
Yes - I believe CH will sort Eric & Sookie out eventually. I hope!
You are spot-on with the parallells between the Sookie Stackhouse mysteries and Pride and Prejudice, I cannot believe I didn't see this sooner because it's so obvious.
Yes, I think that a very good case can be made that Eric's feelings toward Sookie were developing far beyond the level of being interested in her just because she could be a potential sexual conquest or of her her 'gift' - and that this interest extends back to book 1. At some point we will visit in depth book 1 - and post our previous discussions.
Bill is Wickham, disparaging Eric (Darcy)'s good name and reputation. Even Bill says that Eric is a good man, and all reports about him by others say the same - he is good, honest, and fair. Bill's tendancy to think ill of Eric's motives, may well stem from his own less that stellar motives for why he does things.
Also, I think that at some point Sookie will realize her feelings for Eric - she's come close a few times already, but she keeps pushing those aside - for now.
I think that this is the book when Sookie's prejudices about Eric are removed - but it had been "coming on so gradually ...) and you guys have done really excellent analysis and made very pertinent points. Did you ever look at the scene when Eric & Sookie get back to her house and are attacked ...
p 266 "Sookie? Sookie? ... Do we need to take to the hospital?"
p 267 "She's alive?"
What was going on with Eric here - was it genuine fear for Sookie that was clouding his judgement - we see later with Tara that he's good at assessing injuries & the need for hospitalisation; and in LDID he still recognised the spark of life in the girl lying next to them.
p 268 "Eric's hands stroked back my hair" - another comforting "ah, Eric cares" moment; and p 269 "I think that Sookie is telling us she belongs to herself" - out-and-out confirmation that he really does "get her," but although Sookie registers that comment, I don't recall that she has erver overtly acknowledged it - do you think that she has done so sub-consciously?
Perhaps subconsciously she knows, and on at least one occasion she mentions that Eric 'gets' her. But I don't think that it has really clicked for her.
I love that moment when she flips off both vamps and Eric is amused, while Bill is shocked. A moment that both illustrates and illuminates the differences between them and the core of their personalities.
I think that he is fearful for her, and we are given to understand that she's covered in blood (and we know that she is still recovering from having been recently staked), maybe it is that coupled with her declaring that she felt that she had to save him as well, has crystallized to him that she is someone worth worrying about.
There are so many instances of Eric being amused or amazed (in a positive way) by Sookie when others are not - because he "gets" her. I so hope that she "gets" that soon - surely even Sookie cannot be that obtuse! I hope that CH realises what a wonderful "hero" she has created, whether she intended to or not - do we not all want to be liked and loved for who we are, for someone to love our whole, in spite of and because of our "quirks", and not be constantly trying to change us?
Well said, Frenchie. Those are just some of the reasons that many of us have a pro-Eric stance.
The relationship between him and Sookie has been building gradually over time, throughout the course of the books, and it is (and 'feels') more real because of that.
"WHICH - ties in to your catch here, IMO, of how & when he knew Sookie was lying for Bill."
I sometimes forget that we are getting the story from Sookie's POV, so now, re-reading p50 ... " "If I'm understanding you, Bill was working on a project ... for the Queen of Louisiana," I finished. "But you didn't know about it. Is this right?" Eric stared at me for a long moment, while he thought about what to tell me." - darn right he was thinking about what to tell her, she had just betrayed herself, and she is obviously not the only one who is good at guarding facial expressions - I'm sure that Eric was thinking about what to tell her, but I guess his thought process and his choices were somewhat different to those Sookie envisaged!!!
Ok I wanted to put something out there to get everyones thought. This has been bouncing around in my head for sometime. Threw out the book Eric is trying to figure out what secret assignment Bill is working on for the Queen and as a reader it looks like the mission is the database, but after reading CD for the third time I think it is the cover Bill uses once he is saved.
If you read the first chapter when Bill tells Sookie about the assignment pay close attention to how he lets her connect the dots and at the end of the conversation tells her if anything happens to go to Eric for protection and give him the computer stuff. Then threw out the book we have Sookie thinking she knows what the secret is and Eric trying to figure out what she knows. It is also pointed out the Bill never gives her name up and we are lead to believe it is because Lorena would kill Sookie.
What had stuck out in my head that something else is up, is on page 239. Sookie lets it slip that a lot of people died for the program. Bill glances at the door, it a good bet Eric is listening. Bill ask's "It's Safe" Sookie says "Yes." Then Bill whispers in her ear "Did they search my house?" and the conversation goes on from there. What hit home was the only time CH gave the impression that Bill whispered was that one question and then he just spills everything about the project with Eric in the other room. Ok call me stupid, but if it is a secret project and Eric isn't suppose to know, why would you say anything Eric could hear expect to throw him off. Sookie also points out that couldn't anyone make the database. Hmmm and so far as we know the Queen never knew Bill was missing. What do you think? Am I reading more into to then there is? (Ok, we know Sookie was a secret project.) Is the database a secret assignment or not?
Post's in regards to NightLover's (Erika) last question (..is the DB a secret assignment or not) were given their own thread.
Please see: "The Wild Card: Sookie's Position (Role) in Sookieverse"
hmmm. that is a good question.
- Now during that time Bill's has been on secret misson & therefore started the realtionship under hesitant & false pretenses.
- Lied to her on a daily basis.
- Manipulated her on a daily basis in order to keep his mission secret.
- Took her virginity while she was grieving the death of her grandma (whose an opportunist??)
- Assinated her Uncle.
- Left her after being in massacre the night fater she'd been beated & almost raped on a mission where he was supposed to have protected her.
- Left her for a another woman while leaving another dangerous secret mission in her home (the DB).
- Cheated on her.
- Went to pension her off to Eric.
- Drained her & Raped her.
I just have to touch on something about Bill & Sookie's relationship as far as Club Dead. I know I have touched on this briefly before but listening to CD on audio it really hit home & I was really able to frame the timeline & issues.
Based on the time line from When Sookie met Bill up until Club Dead they had been dating 7 months. That's it.
During that time they broke up 3 times.
Once in DUD.
Once in LDID
And once in CD.
So I'm going to minus about a month of them dating & say they were together, together 6 months.
When I thought about it in this frame I am even more flummoxed by all the Bill lovin'.
Sure he feels bad & there were certain thinsg he couldn't control but Seriously??
They didn't even date a year & look at all the things he did or that happened w/in his care in 6 months!
There seems to be this crazy idea that b'c she is 25 years old & times a tickin', that b'c he was her 1st, he should be her last!
But really... when you look at in this context who can want her to go back to him?
Now compare Eric - in 2 years he has patiently watched & waited. Observed & for the most part respectfully kept his distance.
I just don't get the distrust in Eric as opposed to Bill.
And even - the want & need for Sookie & Bill to be together.
So do you think it's just that most people don't consider how short their realtionship actual was?? And therefore, don't really grasp all the problems that were ever present during their brief time together??
When I thought about it in this frame I am even more flummoxed by all the Bill lovin'.
Oh my goodness - tell me about it. I don't get it. He also thought so little of the pride she had demonstrated that he thought they'd just get back together after she'd rescued him. He just assumed that he would be back with Sookie - brushing her hair and lying down with her on the floor and declaring her "mine" after he did that. I also suspect that he was prepared to pass Sookie on to Eric a la Tara. It's only the fact that Eric doesn't want that that it doesn't happen. Eric says in CD:
"He wanted …" Eric began, then stopped and looked closely at my face. "Well, leave that for now. I would not have told you any of this, if Pam hadn't interfered.
I think here that he was going to tell her about the deal, but thought in the last moment that he wouldn't. Mainly because that would ensure that Sookie would *never* willingly accept Eric, and because he didn't want to humiliate her further. Bill says over and over that if anything happens to her to "go to Eric" (the first time it was Sam) and I suspect that this was the deal he made with Eric they reference in LDID. That explains why Eric wouldn't have a problem with Bill telling Sookie at that point - it would reflect badly on Bill, but not so badly on Eric. Eric could have resurrected the situation by being a gentleman about it, but Bill would have a real problem rescuing the relationship if she knew he was going to pass her on.
Despite the fact that he had been sleeping with Lorena for weeks, he reacts with anger at the thought that she would sleep with Alcide - I think Bill likes her poor self esteem and plays on that to stay with her - he figures that no matter what, she'll just come back to him. He lies to her terribly too - she doesn't really know Bill. He tells her in DUD that he prefers the company of ordinary people, when all of his time is obviously spent with Lorena and the Monroe vamps - the 4 vampires least likely to actually interact with ordinary people if ever I've seen them. And if he still omits telling her about the deal with Eric he's still lying to her in FDTW.
He *stood* there while Longshadow attacked her too. It was Eric who acted (and he obviously got in trouble for it) but Bill stood there. He pulled her out afterwards, but that's not much. He could have, at the very least, tried to fight Longshadow (he was certainly ready to fight Eric rather than let him bite Sookie post-staking) but he did absolutely nothing at all.
*AND* Sookie says the following in DTTW:
"You are beautiful." No one had ever looked me in the eyes and said that.
She's been with Bill for six months, and he never told her she was beautiful! How awful that is - that's enough for me.
Furthermore, the cad that he is, he brings in Selah Pumphrey every date they have - *knowing* his ex-girlfriend is a telepath who can hear every nasty thought Selah has about her, and all about his relationship with her - he has more in common with Andy Bellefleur than he thinks. On top of that, he is just plain old embarassing her in front of the town deliberately. That made me hate his guts.
I suspect that the reason Team Bill'ers are on his side is because of personal preference on looks and basic personality (the constructed one he offers Sookie, rather than his real personality), and the fact that they have seen him too much through Sookie's eyes, rather than analysing his actual words and actions. Eric hasn't ever physically harmed her either (bar biting her - but that wasn't actively meant to harm her) - not a once. Bill has done so numerous times. In a crisis, Eric is always concerned with Sookie's safety despite not being her boyfriend - Eric is in control of himself, whereas Bill is all over the place.
They didn't even date a year
They didn't date at all - he sort of came to her house and her work, but she says he didn't even take her to symphony and such *even* when she said in DUD that it's always her asking him - he doesn't take her anywhere but Fangtasia as far as I can see. He's more than willing to give her stuff through the strip mall, but he doesn't take her anywhere and give her anything nice until they break up in Dallas. He clearly still doesn't want to act like they're anything but private partners, rather than a girl he's proud to be with.
He takes Portia to the football game (I can't think that was a Fellowship thing she was bluffing at) but he never seems to take Sookie anywhere - he's lying to himself if he believes he wants to be with her - he's obviously ashamed, and she's convenient.
He also doesn't talk to her about anything at all - he doesn't tell her about the Bellefleurs/his own history until he's thinking about his own needs (go get the Bible) and he treats her like an idiot (explaining Quinn and the Hair of the Dog incident). She says in LDID that she wasn't really seeing Bill in regards to vampires, but I think it's Bill who has never seen her for what she is. I think Eric does - he gives her far more information in CD (he even surprises Pam and Chow) than Bill would ever have given her.
It is clear to me that Bill thinks only of Bill - he's concerned with getting her back, and making himself happy - but not with making her happy. He does the very minimum with Sookie - sufficiency rather than actual giving. He doesn't consider how Sookie feels at any point - except how it effects him. He also uses any concession to her feelings work in his own favour - as a sort of recommendation to his own character.
Eric, whom she thinks is all about Eric, respects her boundaries, and other than that once in DD (out of anger and frustration) doesn't declare Sookie "mine" after CD when he says that "I think Sookie is telling us she belongs to herself". He obviously stops himself when talking to the shrieking Barry etc.
Thank you Calla - you put voice & detail to all of my thoughts! 
When I wrote my original post it was hard for me not to go on & on about all the detailed mechanisims Bill used to manipulated Sook & keep her rapt, insecure & in love with him!
But honestly - you look at the outline & then examine the layers in between like you are pointing out & it is astounding really.
She's been with Bill for six months, and he never told her she was beautiful! How awful that is - that's enough for me.
And on top of that when you have insult to injury - you have is lack of helping her out. And during this time, one measly gift given to her (the earrings) as a passive way of apologizing for his antics. I love the way he twists it around when he sees her - "it is our nature" blah, blah...
At that point, at least Eric had sent her flowers when she was in the hospital in DUD but also, took a bullet for her (as well as healed her & doctored her but I am not really talking about that so much in this context). Bill was far, far away from taking a bullet for her in any way. It seems up 2 CD, Eric had certainly been there enough times to care/protect/save for her (Longshadow, Meanead attack, FOTS afterwmath, Dallas massacare, Orgy).
Now compare Bill, was either stood there, not around or actually fled. Often, IMO coming back when his jealous & possesive tendencies were egged on (date w/Sam in DUD, sees her w/JB, finds out Eric took her to the orgy).
Eric hasn't ever physically harmed her either (bar biting her - but that wasn't actively meant to harm her) - not a once. Bill has done so numerous times.
Oh I know! I say that all the time!
They didn't date at all - he sort of came to her house and her work, but she says he didn't even take her to symphony and such *even* when she said in DUD that it's always her asking him - he doesn't take her anywhere but Fangtasia as far as I can see.
Great point. I hadn't thought of it from that perspective. The fact that they actually didn't go - out, out - on real dates....
With that being said - it drives the point home further in regard to Sookie's instinct of feeling like a kept woman if she had run of Bill's expense account! Yes! Brilliant observation Calla!
It explains so much as to why she had such a hard time accepting certain offers he made (& from where I was standing - they were far & few between) as opposed to Eric's.
he's lying to himself if he believes he wants to be with her - he's obviously ashamed, and she's convenient.
True. I think his possesive instincts overrode his actual true feelings making him even more conflicted about her. As he admited in DD, he felt a relationship w/a human "degraded" him & he didn't want to do it. Also CH said he was extremely reluctant to get invloved despite his surprising feelings for Sookie. His behavior has completely been in line w/his warring mental side. Add to which his physical attachment to her.
You're absolutely right - she is convenient. His convenient food on tap. The best meal he's even tasted apparently. Why in the world would he want to give that up? Esp. when he was been ordered to be with her?
but I think it's Bill who has never seen her for what she is. I think Eric does - he gives her far more information in CD (he even surprises Pam and Chow) than Bill would ever have given her.
Absolutley. Bill has consistently even up to FDTW, underestimated Sookie. I say the same thing - he has never seen her for who & what she is.
He does the very minimum with Sookie - sufficiency rather than actual giving.
Excellent way to to put it all.
He also uses any concession to her feelings work in his own favour - as a sort of recommendation to his own character.
UGH! Absolutely!! Like I mentioned earlier abotu LDID - he he sees her w/JB & shows up & just takes her. After knowing she still wants him - he then twists the scenario around on her making her feel badly about the fact that she doesn't accept him for what & who is actually is!
Eric, whom she thinks is all about Eric, respects her boundaries, and other than that once in DD (out of anger and frustration)
That's what I say too. His action there in DD was out of complete anger & frustration. He had boiled over when he saw Quinn. Also making me think - what the hell does Eric know that we & Sookie clearly don't. but that's another thread!
Thank you Calla - you put voice & detail to all of my thoughts!
I gave this a great deal of thought. I'm a sucker for a man with a sense of humour, so I naturally tend towards Eric. But when I analysed the relationship, I could see that Eric really is the best man in that fight, sense of humour or not.
And on top of that when you have insult to injury - you have is lack of helping her out. And during this time, one measly gift given to her (the earrings) as a passive way of apologizing for his antics.
And he calls her a loose end in the start of DTTW. He doesn't even make a big romantic gesture - no earrings, no flowers at the door - just lots of coming round to her house. He still doesn't want this out in the open. His concession to his stupidity with Lorena is that "he got paid back for that madness" - urgh. Even if he thought it was stupidity, which I don't think he did, he needed more than this. I'm also sure that if she'd gotten back with Bill he would have used her killing Lorena to make her knuckle under to his wishes.
At that point, at least Eric had sent her flowers when she was in the hospital in DUD but also, took a bullet for her (as well as healed her & doctored her but I am not really talking about that so much in this context).
Bill didn't even return her calls, and while she's lying there bruised, he's ready to kill Rene Lenier and have her be proud of his accomplishments. 
And then Eric actually gives her a new expensive driveway in CD - with no strings attached whatsoever.
The fact that they actually didn't go - out, out - on real dates....
While he takes Portia to the football game, and the symphony (that couldn't have been a Fellowship thing either) and he takes Selah to a wedding, Merlottes, etc. He doesn't want to go out with her anywhere that anyone will see them together.
It explains so much as to why she had such a hard time accepting certain offers he made (& from where I was standing - they were far & few between) as opposed to Eric's.
He makes offers, as if it is a contract for services rendered, Eric just does things - that makes it easier to accept I think. I also think that the things Eric gives her are things that she needs, and that she hasn't asked for in any way - but rather thoughtful gifts he gives because he's actually listening to her. I think that makes a giant difference. Bill wants her to demand stuff and tell him what to do, whereas Eric knows what it is that she needs. Sure - that serves his purposes (which I'm sure is a small part because Eric isn't a fool) but it's also something kind to do for her.
I think his possesive instincts overrode his actual true feelings making him even more conflicted about her. As he admited in DD, he felt a relationship w/a human "degraded" him & he didn't want to do it.
Whereas Eric says in CD that vampire-vampire relationships are frowned upon by other vampires, and that Bill is basically a freak for wanting that. He shows again when Alcide is interested in her too - Bill must know down deep that he's in trouble (all of his own making because Lorena calling him back at that time could not have been coincidental - he must have already told her about the database) when others are interested in Sookie. He's got to get back in there and keep her with him no matter what.
You're absolutely right - she is convenient. His convenient food on tap. The best meal he's even tasted apparently. Why in the world would he want to give that up? Esp. when he was been ordered to be with her?
Definitely - great tasting, bonded to him (and he's clearly careless enough to keep giving her vamp blood in order to make that happen - if she was still with Bill she would be at least half vamp now unless she resisted the blood giving). Also, he is subtly training her to get better with her telepathy - he gets her to practice on Fangtasia employees (I forget the book this is mentioned in, but she's lamenting the atrophy of her skills since she hasn't been with Bill) and train herself better to deal with her gift, as well as getting her to see it as a gift, rather than a curse. This is priming her for using her gift to "help him" with the Queen - he could have lied about this whole deal too. When she is told she's summoned to Fangtasia, Eric hasn't made any threats, but Bill implies that there are threats.
UGH! Absolutely!! Like I mentioned earlier abotu LDID - he he sees her w/JB & shows up & just takes her. After knowing she still wants him - he then twists the scenario around on her making her feel badly about the fact that she doesn't accept him for what & who is actually is!
Definitely again - he just thought she would meekly go along with the "because I'm a vamp" explanation for absolutely everything he does that she doesn't like. I don't think he'll ever change that profoundly, because he finds out that the Bellefleurs are his family pre-Lorena and he still doesn't connect with his human past, and modify his behaviour.
what the hell does Eric know that we & Sookie clearly don't. but that's another thread!
I'd love a topic on that - I have a question about that - I don't know the forum well enough yet to have lurked over this subject.
"I suspect that the reason Team Bill'ers are on his side is because of personal preference on looks and basic personality" - I would like to know whether there are any Team Bill'ers out there who have not seen "True Blood"?
"He takes Portia to the football game" - and Selah to the wedding - I think that Bill has actually retained "human" snobbishness.
"he got paid back for that madness" - you know, taken out of context, Bill could mean that he lost Lorena, his maker & long-time (ex) lover.
"Bill wants her to demand stuff and tell him what to do, whereas Eric knows what it is that she needs." - you know, this is one thing that I can't criticise him too much about - my husband hates buying presents, and never seemingly knows what to get for me (?) - but his saving grace is that he does try and Bill doesn't seem to even bother - and why should he - he gets what he wants without too much effort - it's good to see Sookie's self-esteem grow throughout the books.
I would like to know whether there are any Team Bill'ers out there who have not seen "True Blood"?
I can categorically answer that. There were a ton on her board before the show even began.
you know, taken out of context, Bill could mean that he lost Lorena, his maker & long-time (ex) lover.
Interesting. And considering you never really know what context he is talking in ......who knows? 
One thing that I would have loved to have known was the rest of what Eric was going to say about Bill wanting to pass on Sookie, because the whole Mickey/Tara coupling was something Eric said was a big no, no these days. Not that Eric would have done the things that Mickey did, but I wonder now if that is not part of Eric motives to find Bill. Eric would not have wanted Sookie to be left unprotected, but I could have possible killed any possible coupling, if it was viewed as a passing off that brought them together.
One other big Bill thing that as always sat in the back of my mind was when the Ratts attacked Sookie. Part of me now wonders if he was not late but came up on them and sat back and watched for a while to use it as a means to get his blood into Sookie. Sometimes i think the only reason Bill jumped into the mix in that situtation was because Sam bussed him in the shadows. In the Book, If I remember correctly doesn't Sookie see the dog frist?
One thing that I would have loved to have known was the rest of what Eric was going to say about Bill wanting to pass on Sookie, because the whole Mickey/Tara coupling was something Eric said was a big no, no these days.
You know - I generally don't like to write an opinion on a hypothetical situation of a character might have or would've done.
I have been in heated debates on the Wiki board in regard to big hypothetical situations such as: People saying Eric would have done the same thing as Bill if he was in the trunk.
My argument - Um...Eric would have never been in the trunk in the 1st place (!) & also, the text is the text for a reason. CH put Bill in that trunk for a specific reason - character growth, plot development so the situation is moot, etc..,etc...
However I think I can venture a guess in this instance & not get in too much trouble & think that Eric would have felt Sookie was his responsibility at this point. Esp. after she has been in his employ already & hurt while doing his job. Basically - esp. after everything which happened in LDID. So I think aside form his wanted to get in her pants at some point, he actually would feel it ness. for him to actually watch out for her.
Part of me now wonders if he was not late but came up on them and sat back and watched for a while to use it as a means to get his blood into Sookie.
Someone asked CH why he was late & CH responded that ...Oh I think this is it.....he recieved a phone call.
I would like to know whether there are any Team Bill'ers out there who have not seen "True Blood"?
Frenchie.... I was team Bill, until I read the books for that very reason. Steven Moyer and Anna Paquin have great chemistry on the show, but when I started reading the books I was a changed woman..... I am Eric all the way.
I think that Bill has actually retained "human" snobbishness.
Definitely - he's conscious of his own social status in the human world. I don't think he would have touched Sookie without orders.
you know, taken out of context, Bill could mean that he lost Lorena, his maker & long-time (ex) lover.
Yeah, but I don't think that's what he was referring to - I think he thought that that would be enough.
his saving grace is that he does try and Bill doesn't seem to even bother - and why should he - he gets what he wants without too much effort - it's good to see Sookie's self-esteem grow throughout the books.
I'm lucky with my husband - he has fantastic taste and good sense. But I think you're right - Bill gives her the absolute minimum that she needs.
One thing that I would have loved to have known was the rest of what Eric was going to say about Bill wanting to pass on Sookie, because the whole Mickey/Tara coupling was something Eric said was a big no, no these days.
Eric would *never* tell her that though. The only way she would ever find out is if Bill does it for a bit of one-upmanship on Eric in attempt to best him - which would be highly stupid and not work (but Bill is not the most clever romantic manipulator). I can't think that it was included without good reason though.
Not that Eric would have done the things that Mickey did, but I wonder now if that is not part of Eric motives to find Bill.
I think that like conversations with Eric are like his motivations - he has numerous reasons. I think he wanted her to have free choice over the decision - he doesn't just want to be with Sookie, he wants her to willingly choose him (in small part in the first couple of books so that he can best Bill). There seems to be a strongly competitive relationship between Bill and Eric, with Sookie as the stakes. I recall the glee with which he watches Sookie rescind Bill's invitation - Sookie calls it a "triumphant grin".
Part of me now wonders if he was not late but came up on them and sat back and watched for a while to use it as a means to get his blood into Sookie. Sometimes i think the only reason Bill jumped into the mix in that situtation was because Sam bussed him in the shadows.In the Book, If I remember correctly doesn't Sookie see the dog frist?
I don't think that he sat back and watched. But I do think that Sam was the deciding factor in him giving her blood. The dog was there before (she was scared that the Rats had brought a dog to savage her) and she hears voices talking. I daresay here that it's Sam saying "This is on your account, do something", and it also served Bill's purposes to have his blood give him a leading edge with the seduction.
Basically - esp. after everything which happened in LDID. So I think aside form his wanted to get in her pants at some point, he actually would feel it ness. for him to actually watch out for her.
I don't think Eric would have. He shows absolutely supreme control in the rejections she gives him, and if looking into someone's eyes during sex is what "flicks your Bic" I don't think that that same person would get off on forcing Sookie. Eric has a sort of "conqueror" personality - he's not interested in force - he wants to win. That's part of the reason he's so persistant. Eric competes with Bill just as Bill competes with Eric.
I think that Bill has actually retained "human" snobbishness.
Definitely - he's conscious of his own social status in the human world. I don't think he would have touched Sookie without orders.
This comment made me think of some of the class references that run throughout the books -- I just posted about them in the Sean/Layla thread but wasn't sure if that was where they should go.
I don't think Eric would have. He shows absolutely supreme control in the rejections she gives him, and if looking into someone's eyes during sex is what "flicks your Bic" I don't think that that same person would get off on forcing Sookie.
I was in no way saying he would force her. Not even implying it.
But I do think he would feel she would be officially under his protection whether she realizes or not (or likes it or not).
I base this on the events that happened in LDID. Afterall, she was under his employ & has been a few times now (even "offscreen").
And Eric being Eric would more than likely (subtly) do his best to watch out for her from as much of a distance as he could. Eric takes his duties as sherriff seriously (regardless of wanting ot get in her pants) - therefore, I think the rules of his world would apply towards Sookie once she was officially handed over by Bill.
I thikn he would do his best to watch her so she never felt infringed upon is what I was trying to say.
I was in no way saying he would force her. Not even implying it.
Sorry - I didn't mean to imply that - but I did consider what he would have done if the deal was to pass her on.
I was just expounding on that. I subjected Eric to the same honourable test I subjected Bill to.
Eric takes his duties as sherriff seriously (regardless of wanting ot get in her pants) - therefore, I think the rules of his world would apply towards Sookie once she was officially handed over by Bill.
I agree - Eric is right that he's a different manager to Russell Edgington. He's got all the good management skills they talk about too.
Oh No worries. I just must be clear about how honorable & smart I find our beloved Eric .
The day I think Eric forces something on Sookie against her will is the day I cry large, large tears on my tiny pillow 
OK so I am reading the Eric POV fan fiction which is really pretty dang good & there are some really great observations or points the author brings up.
One thing that occurred to me is the fact that the night she got staked Alcide not only took off but slept with Debbie again.
I don't think brought this up before but maybe I have or maybe someone else has. I apologize.
Now here is a guy who was hired to protect her, made a pass at her beforehand, was PO'd just b'c she was dancing suggestively & he wanted her in his bed & then the day after he sleeps with his ex, while she's battered on the couch, makes a pass at her again.
I mean - I know I already said I thought Alcide was pretty lame & weak b'c he really doesn't know his own mind yet but....I don't think it fully dawned on me that he slept with her after seeing Sookie get staked. Then add to which, Debbie was engaged & burned Sookie's shawl at her own engagement party....like she had nothing better to do that night? Ohh...Alcide.
Anyway - just a little vent.
you know what I dont get? nobody recognized Eric/Leif in there (the same in Dallas) but when Victor came , he knew Eric.. and so did Filipe.. and maybe many more, I dont know.. I just think that Eric has been around for so long that he must have met Stan or Russell at some point..
Yeah i really don't get that either maggmiss. Of all the years they've been around i think they would have seen the huge ass viking before
Bill's database wasn't really out until ATD. Bill was selling it online as well as at the conference. That could explain it.
you know what I dont get? nobody recognized Eric/Leif in there (the same in Dallas) but when Victor came , he knew Eric.. and so did Filipe.. and maybe many more, I dont know.. I just think that Eric has been around for so long that he must have met Stan or Russell at some point..
I wonder if they did recognize him and ignored it... but yeah, you would think that those guys would have known Eric. I got the sense that Victor and Eric had some history (can't remember specifics since it is Monday)... Plus Stan and Russel would have recognized him at the conference.. He married Russle and what's his name (bart?) so yeah... It may just be a continuity error though...
Bill's database wasn't really out until ATD. Bill was selling it online as well as at the conference. That could explain it.
Yeah I was thinking that too. But also - I am sure Nevada would know him regardless. They had to check out all the Queen's assets while planning the coup. And he was the priest for the ceremony. If they are really the ones who won EEE - I bet they know more vamps then most.
OK another thought....did Sookie ever thank Eric for the driveway?
For the 1st time I realized she rubbed the shawl in Eric & Bill's face but never mentioned the driveway to him when he came over. Or the fact that he sent Pam to help her. That's just retarded. It's the opposite of graciousness.
It's funny that Quinn gives her shit for being "harder" on him than anyone else. He actually has no idea.
I thought the conference was regional, that the west side of the country wasn't there.
I wonder if they did recognize him and ignored it..
I think they didnt.. otherwise Rusell wouldnt let him enter into his house, where he was holding Bill.. it really seems like the continuity error you mentioned.. i just hope there arent many of those.. then all our (your) close readings of the books might be just over-readings of stuff that we consider important but they are just unintentional errors. (if you know what i mean? i dont know how to explain it better in english)
Yes - you're so right Magda.
OK another thought....did Sookie ever thank Eric for the driveway?
Laura, I believe that Sookie says somewhere, I think right before she rescinds their invitations, that she Still needs to thank Eric for the driveway but she wants them to continue their argument outside because she is still recovering from being beaten, staked, raped etc....but as far as thanking him she must have done it off page....probably a "Seemly" little thank you note.....
And yes this is very ungracious and something her Gran would definitely scold her for!!! Poor Eric, she just won't cut him any slack and he keeps coming back for more.....he must be a sadist...LMAO
Poor Eric, she just won't cut him any slack and he keeps coming back for more.....he must be a sadist...LMAO
Maddey, did you perhaps mean to say 'masochist'?
I think Sadist would apply as well... but in this instance maybe masochist... but I knew what she meant... the two usually go hand in hand anyway.... The Marquis could take as much as give....
GoldBlossom,
I was just shortening the term Sado-masochist by saying Sadist. Sorry for the confusion....I'm not up on my terms....LOL
MB that is probably not a bad thing when talking about S&M... For something so seriously twisted it is also seriously silly. I think it was an HBO late night where they had some S&M chicks discussing the tricks to the trade. How those people can keep a straight face when they talk about some of the ridiculous stuff that they do is beyond me... In my opinion, not sexy at all.
I'm with you on that cmac, I don't know very much about s&m and that suits me just fine thank you very much.....they can keep it. I already have enough pain in my life so I don't feel the need to add to it, and it certainly doesn't make me feel sexy! LOL for those that do get a thrill from it, more power to ya, but not for me....
you know what I dont get? nobody recognized Eric/Leif in there (the same in Dallas) but when Victor came , he knew Eric.. and so did Filipe.. and maybe many more, I dont know.. I just think that Eric has been around for so long that he must have met Stan or Russell at some point..
I wonder if they did recognize him and ignored it... but yeah, you would think that those guys would have known Eric. I got the sense that Victor and Eric had some history (can't remember specifics since it is Monday)... Plus Stan and Russel would have recognized him at the conference.. He married Russle and what's his name (bart?) so yeah... It may just be a continuity error though...
Another (possible?) theory: Eric has been mentioned as a rogue and someone who goes against the grain. Perhaps his position of "Sherif of Area 5" is newer than we think? That would explain the "unknown" factor. Being known by name but not person is a very powerful wild-card to pull, perhaps Eric was just saving his for a situation like this? or mabye b'c of the uniqueness of Sookie's character, he's being even more thorough than he normally is...?
okay... random thought.. Listening to Club Dead on Audio and am at the end.. Pam is about to leave and says that she is going to run back home. Sookie asked her if she was going to run all the way back to Shreveport and Pam responds, "It would not be the first time". So does Pam mean that she has been around Sookie's house before and ran back to Shreveport and when (besides when she came to the bar at the beginning of the book and later when she came out to Sookie's with Eric and Chow) had Pam been at Sookie's house (if that is what she is saying)?
Is it possible that Pam is one of the Vamps that Eric has looking out for Sookie?
Is it possible that Pam is one of the Vamps that Eric has looking out for Sookie?
Yes. Because Sookie had that thought when Pam was dating Amelia. She wondered to herself if Pam was also there to watch over her.
Is it possible that Pam is one of the Vamps that Eric has looking out for Sookie?
Caroline, I never thought too much about that statement. It makes sense that Eric would have put Pam on "Sookie watch." We know he has been watching her for a long time and he can trust Pam to perform the job, report back to him, and keep it quiet. Then, once Sookie and Pam have a closer relationship, she moves into the house and out of the bushes (FDTW).
Yes. Because Sookie had that thought when Pam was dating Amelia. She wondered to herself if Pam was also there to watch over her.
I think she more suspects Pam's interest in Amelia was about Eric spying on her, rather than Pam watching over her. From what I remember she was in a snit at Eric for something and she seemed to be having another one of her "Eric is a bastard" moments that she soon gets over.
Who better than Pam though for this job? To Eric, she's loyal as a dog, she's trustworthy, she seems to have genuine affection for Sookie (and therefore a vested interest in her wellbeing) and she is probably the only other person who has an inkling of the depth of his feeling for her. She will want to keep Sookie safe, not because she has to, or is being paid to. She'd do it just because a safe Sookie means a happy Eric.
Is it possible that Pam is one of the Vamps that Eric has looking out for Sookie?
Awesome catch.
I think we can all assume every single vamp in area 5 which ever encounters Sookie is watching Sookie for Eric. Nuff Said. Speaking of which, I heart Eric.
Its so hard to catch up on this whole thread. I just want to put my two cents on a couple of things:
Alcide is like the charming guy you meet at summer camp who's a couple of years older and is really cute and is used to being a flirt but you're young and innocent and he's all into you (because you are the girl currently in the room with him, lol). You're inexperienced and you're flattered by the attention. For him, its easy to be flirty and attentive but then, when they actually have an opportunity to deliver - a phone call, a date, sticking around to make sure a room full of vampires/werewolves don't eat you when you have a stake sticking out of your stomach, etc. - well, they come up short.
Not to mention Sookie invites him for coffee and he asks for eggs and sausage! I just thought that was beyond forward and rude. I'd be pretty ticked off if a complete stranger just responded to an offer for coffee with a request that I prepare breakfast for them. IMO. But it could be me. I don't really cook. I'd be like "there's the Cheerios. Here's some milk. Knock yourself out."
Hahaha!! Me too, I've never cooked sausage, I don't like it. But if I knew how I'd be like "Go to McDonalds if you want stuff like that or just eat your Cheerios and don't complain." Ok, I probably wouldn't be that rude but I wouldn't cook them anything.
Of course! Sookie just takes it too far. Also - I'm looking thru #3 for something specific - and I just came across Alcide going off on the vampires coming out of the coffin and getting wealthy and Sookie susses out his attitude as being bitter. Well, he's got a family owned business that's doing pretty well. WTF does he want? Also - the fact that hes forced by the vamps to act on this. He could look at it as a wonderful opportunity to get rid of his dad's debt without actually paying it. Not the vamps fault Daddy Herveaux has a gambling problem. Alcide's just another big WAH WAH WAH. IMO.
Great job at putting many (but not all, haha) of his problems in a neat little paragraph. Wow, when you look at it together like that he is a big whiner isn't he? I actually liked his character in the beginning before his immaturity really showed. I like him now still but he's got a lot of superiority issues.
He's also a bit dim.
I know I am cruisin for a bruisin but I like Alcide. He is my number two after Eric for Sookie. He is immature but the same can be said for Sookie.
Didn't Sookie say something like - there I'd be - stuck with a guy who'd believe the word of Debbie Pelt lol!
Club Dead: A Word About Garters
Sookie (ID): Arlene would tell me to enjoy the minute, the second, with every bit of zest I could summon up. She would tell me I never knew what man I might meet, maybe tonight would be the magic night. Maybe wearing garters would change the course of my life, Arlene would tell me. (p. 157)
Later (p. 179)
“Leif,” I muttered, trying to commit the name to memory. “Leif. I guess my garters are showing. Does that mean…?”
“Yes, Sookie?”
Anyone want to contemplate any meeting "Mr. Right" folklore associated with garters? I don't know any!
Hi Mari.... I actually caught that and posted a while back.... I think it is a clue, but who the fuck knows anymore...
I'm just re-reading the series over the holiday and am on book 3 - I was just wondering, what if Sookie had just given the computer/discs to Eric that night he, Pam & Chow came to visit her, would Eric still have looked for Bill? What do you think? I know Sookie would never have done that! I think I would have on the other hand... I'm more into self-preservation than old Sook!
Missleetoo I have always wondered that. Also why did Bill tell Sookie if he.s not back in 8 weeks go to Eric and turn over the database, because really the night after they get back from Jackson he tells Pam it is all done and ready to be given to the Queen. So why not tell her to go straight to Eric. Other than maybe Eric not going after Bill what else was accomplished? Sookie gets staked and healed with more of Eric's blood, this could have been avoided. The weres coming after Sookie-this could have been avoided. When Lorena started torturing Bill all he had to say was the Queen already had the database. To me this really shows Bill's lack of planning/ forethought.. What's so interesting to me is that the BL's blame a lot of Club Dead on Eric. They feel Sookie wouldn't have been hurt if Eric hadn't used her to go after Bill and the database. They see it as just another example of Eric only saving his own skin.
I agree with you! Eric discovers in this very book that he has feelings for Sookie and thus all his actions are him, trying to save/protect her. I just finished chapter 10 where Eric's parting sentence to Sookie is:
"Eric looked down at me. He seemed to have a hickey on his neck. I opened my mouth, and then shut it again. Better not to comment. 'I don't like having feelings,' Eric said coldly, and he left. That was a tough exit line to top."
The thing is, having feelings for Eric means that he can no longer be his cold, hard, ambitious self and now has an entirely other motivation behind his actions: Sookie! This leaves him feeling weakened, out of control and dependent, all of which he finds 'scary'. He survived a 1000 yrs by distancing himself from his 'human' emotions and now they are back & guiding his actions!
Sookie is becoming his Achilles' heel...
They feel Sookie wouldn't have been hurt if Eric hadn't used her to go after Bill and the database. They see it as just another example of Eric only saving his own skin.
I think this is interesting, because if Eric were really into saving his own skin, he would have tortured Sookie to get the database or used some other excessive means. Instead, he gives her a chance to help him find Bill and looks out for her the entire time she is there. He could also have let Bill die and told Sookie he was already dead and used her vulnerable grief to woo her and get the database. There are many much more effective ways of getting what he wants and covering his ass. Eric is honest with Sookie and places trust in her to help him and do the right thing even though she has been betrayed and is heart broken.
The irony is that the mission that Bill was on was, in all likelihood, not the database but Sookie herself. Of course Eric does not suspect that at all so even if he had managed to get the database from Sookie (which would have been doable in a bad way) it still would not have been the work that the queen was expecting.
What's so interesting to me is that the BL's blame a lot of Club Dead on Eric. They feel Sookie wouldn't have been hurt if Eric hadn't used her to go after Bill and the database. They see it as just another example of Eric only saving his own skin.
IMO, it's not a very compelling argument when you look at Eric's behavior throughout the series as a whole.
Here's a question...what's so wrong about wanting to save your own skin? Esp. if you have dependents? Let's put it into real life context. If I was a parent & my life was threatened to the point where I don't know who or where my kids would go but odds where, they'd end up in a not so great place mentally & physically as a result? You'd bet your bottom dollar I'd look to survive so I'd make sure they didn't end up in a shitty foster care system.
At least he is also looking to protect himself so he can continue to protect his child & the people in his area who have sworn fealty to him. We all know he takes that seriously b'c we also know not all vamps are as fair or as good a master as Eric, as it's been said numerous times.
Sookie kills or turns a blind eye when she has to save her own skin? Bill lies & deceives when he has to save his own skin or rather...worse that that, keep Sookie in the dark so he can continue to have a relationship with her. His fear of losing her is why he chooses to try & keep her in the dark through his own admittance.
So - to me, It's not a strong argument.
"Eric is honest with Sookie and places trust in her to help him and do the right thing even though she has been betrayed and is heart broken."
I also think this is an example of Eric knowing that Sookie would want to have all the available information (even if it is painful) so she could make her own informed decision... yes, he wants her to make the decision he prefers, but who wouldn't?
Eric respects Sookie's independence more than Bill does. I love it when at the end of book 3, she gives Bill the finger when he says to Eric "She is mine" and Eric responds "I think Sookie is telling us she belongs to herself!" Also, when Eric re-gravels her driveway, Sookie says "He'd had the intelligence to give me what I really wanted. (Of course, he'd also wanted me to go to bed with him for months. But he'd given me the driveway because I needed it.)"
Eric is just and loyal to those who are worthy of it (Pam, his staff, Sookie) - he is a good Sheriff and a good man, Sookie knows that.
PS: the 2nd quote was from the beginning of book 4.
I think most importanty, Eric is ALWAYS honest.. He may be high handed and do things his way but he has never lied to her. I htink Eric tries to save his own skin but he also saves those involved with him because they are his responsibility thus their skin is his skin and thus worth saving
Laura I agree with you. What is so wrong with wanting to save your own skin? I think most of us, if we are really honest with ourselves, all want to save ourselves. This also ties in to that argument of Bill being willing to "die for her". Ugh I find that argument is just as tiresome. I know my husband loves me, but I truly doubt he'd be willing to die for me, the kids for sure, but me, no. And I wouldn't want or expect him to. I also don't understand the argument that because Eric has 2 motives for doing everything that it is bad. I just don't get it. For example my husband had throat cancer 2 years ago. When his treatment was over we wanted to donate money to cancer research. I went to a fund raiser where I could bid on a chance to win dinner with 1 of the Titans( football team here in Nashville). So I bid and won. I had 2 motives, my son got to meet one of his favorite players and we donated to a cause important to us. I guess you could say I was selfish because I was trying to get something for my son, but I still managed to do something for a good cause. So when CH says Eric always has 2 reasons for doing anything I don't see that as necessarily bad. But of course the BL's see that as a negative.
I love CD. For me it was when Eric really came into his own and I became invested in him. Up until then I thought he was fun, flirty but not really a contender. After CD Eric had me!
Ditto, I've been loyal to Eric ever since CD too...
I think the problem Eric gives BL's - with his dual motives, his instinct for self preservation, and his being honest to the point of being brutal - is that none of these things are traits that are identified with a traditional "romantic hero". Therefore they can't accept that Eric is intended to be the romantic lead.
Dark, broody, angsty men with hint of supressed violence - men who can't control themselves because they're so "powerless" against their "obsession" with their "one true love" - this is what they are looking for. And they get it in spades with Bill.
As I'm sure many here have, I've spent some time lurking on a pro Bill forum - just trying to get my head around it really. Bill seems to attract idealistic types - women who believe in the idea of one true love, princess types raised on a knight in shining armour diet. Alot of women who did actually end up with their first love (not saying that's a bad thing, just that alot of them root for Bill). It's interesting to note the differences in language, tone etc in comparison to the way women talk about Eric (of course they say we are all a bunch of sex obsessed minxes which is hardly surprising - it fits right in with the princess type). Much is made of Bill's manners, his "southern gentleman" persona, his sweeping romantic statements. He appeals to a completely different sort of woman. Which is of course quite clever of CH.
I do marvel though at their ability to rationalise and overlook things that are blatantly there in black and white in the text. It's really quite extraordinary. Just this morning I was reading a discussion about DITF where they had concluded that Sookie was finding sex with Eric boring which was why she wasn't getting into it. And that she never had that problem with Bill. Now it clearly says in the text that she is traumatised and unable to connect sexually because of the torture. But no, it can't be that. It must be because Eric is a dud in the sack even though there are reams of evidence to contradict that - and Sookie herself saying that if anyone can help her get over her sexual issues it's him. Honestly, you have to laugh.
Aaine great post. I agree with you. It really is the romantic ideal the BL's love. They do have it with Bill, but only superficially. They really do ignore the darker aspects of his character, and actually they have totally rewritten CD with justifying ALL his actions being out of his control. Of course with him being so powerless all the time I wonder how they think he would ever be able to protect Sookie in the long run. He wasn't able to protect her from Eric and now Eric is scramling to protect her from DeCastro do they really think he has a chance?
I'm not quite sure if this was already brought up... Hubby bought me a kindle, so I'm enjoying rereading the series for the billionth time (i always catch something new)...
The special project that Eric had no idea what it was... instead of it being the database, which was also important... could it have been Sookie herself?
hmmm i never thought about sookie being the project. I think it would make sense
I was reading through it-
* They were looking for Bill's girlfriend- she assumed it was to torture her
* Eric didn't know what the project was, but it he could deliver it it would be okay. Could it be he just had to deliver her?
* To go through all that trouble for a vampire database? Please. It would save them some work, but wouldn't that seem a bit much to go through for a vamp phone book?
* Could Bill have told Lorena that Sookie was the project without giving up her name? She knows that the girl works at Merlottes and is involved with Bill- that's it.
* Did he really not give up her name out of loyalty her her or to his Sophie? He hasn't shown much in the way of loyalty before...?
You bring up some good points...So do you think bill giving the database to sookie for safe keeps was a cover up?
Jeram, I think we have discussed that in the Bill Freelancer thread or somewhere. Laura, do you remember? But yeah, I (we) think Sookie was really the secret project. The database was just a cover. It was an excuse he could give to Eric and Sookie to cover up his true mission.
wouldn't that seem a bit much to go through for a vamp phone book?
I've always thought of it as being more like the FBI/ CIA/ MI5 covert operatives list in Mission Impossible (would that make Bill or Eric = Tom Cruise? Lol ) It's an interesting thought, and although there is no reason to say that Sookie is not also a project - we know that she is, (she's the reason he's back in BonTemps), to say that Sookie is the project doesn't completely ring true to me for a few reasons.
For starters when Bill goes off why does he not just tell Sookie to 'go to the Queen', instead of asking her to pick up and hide all his computer stuff (go armed and in daylight) then 'go to Eric' ? For that matter why ignore Sookie to the point of her breaking off the relationship over the computer stuff?
If Sookie had been the project and Bill had bragged about it to Lorena why would she not just wait until Bill went home to 'see to' Sookie as he intended to (making provision for her etc.) and snatch her then? If he had dumped Sookie for Lorena surely, for his own future protection, he would have gone to the Queen to arrange things for Sookie, not to Eric. If Sookie is the project he's just betrayed the Queen's interests for no reason by going to Eric to arrange her care.
Events later on do suggest some importance to the database. Russell Edgington negotiates himself some access to the database rather than going after Sookie when it's obvious she helped Bill to escape, If Sookie is the important project why does Bill suddenly decamp to Peru to do more work on the database at a point when their relationship is in poor shape (although if we subscribe to the 'Quinn is a tool of the Queen' theory we think we know why), plus the Queen requires Bill to be at the summit to market the database.
For starters when Bill goes off why does he not just tell Sookie to 'go to the Queen', instead of asking her to pick up and hide all his computer stuff (go armed and in daylight) then 'go to Eric' ? For that matter why ignore Sookie to the point of her breaking off the relationship over the computer stuff?
Sookie didn't know anything about the Queen. She discovered that information by accident. Bill never intended to tell her (at least not at that point). An imperitive condition of his mission was to gain her trust. The Queen wanted her willingly. Eric was the next best option. Plus, I think he was hoping that he would be coming back. Sending her to the Queen would indicate that he failed his mission. The orgy showed that she trusts Eric and he is under the Queen's authority. If the Queen requested, Eric would have to give her up, but at the same time, he could convince her that it was a good thing. Bill's mission would still be successful.
He started to become distant from Sookie after LDID. Lorena had contacted him either during LDID or between LDID and CD. So, it's possible that his distance was due to his impending meeting with his maker. We discussed some reasons for their groing distance in the Freelancer thread...
If Sookie had been the project and Bill had bragged about it to Lorena why would she not just wait until Bill went home to 'see to' Sookie as he intended to (making provision for her etc.) and snatch her then?
I don't think Bill was bragging to Lorena about it. She found out like any vampire would - word travels. I don't think it was really about Sookie for Lorena. It was always about Bill. She wanted Sookie as a way to hurt Bill. I definitely think she was after the database as well, but that seemed almost secondary. She tortured him for Sookie's name, not the whereabouts of the database. That was just the cherry on top if she succeeded.
And yeah, she could have just followed him and found Sookie. But it wasn't really about Sookie. It was about hurting Bill. I think she planned to lure him away, seduce him, and win him back. When her plan failed and Bill still wanted Sookie, Lorena went psycho.
Are you saying that Lorena knew Sookie was the project? Because that's not what I mean. Lorena knew Bill was working on a project for the Queen, but like everyone else, she thought that project was the database, which was the cover he was using to hide the real project - Sookie. Lorena went after Bill because she wanted him. The database was a secondary concern.
Crap. I tried posting this, but my entire message erased as posting. Ugh.
So in less than eloquent terms:
I think the db was a side project with some money-making potential. A cover. Sookie was so ignorant over vamp affairs she would accept it.He made a point to make sure she remained ignorant. Naturally he'd send her to Eric- she was familiar with him. PLUS, at this time Hadley is still alive. She'd be incredibly suspicious if she went to the queen and her long lost cousin, who used to make her life a living hell, was right there. Wouldn't you?
As for Lorena, I think he talked about how the queen put him up to feigning a relationship with Sookie in order to win her over for Sophie. He thinks he's just venting about how degrading and humilitating this is to Lorena, who is actually listening. She's ruthless, to say the least. At this point she knows the queen wants her bad enough to set up some elaborate plans and sees the potential value of basically swooping in and taking her. For Mississippi? I'm not sure. It was also about control. When Bill resisted, she lost it and let him have it. She didn't love him, she loved messing with him. Bill is so dark and twisty he'd let her do it too.
Ashmarie- I hadn't seen that in the bill freelancer thread- i'll be sure to take a peek at that. 
I think the project Eric is talking about could in fact be Sookie but the DB was a ruse so he buys that as the excuse in the end b'c Ch did confirm that Eric only found out about Sookie in DD.
it keeps cutting out what you just posted...?
I can see it..can you now if you refresh it?
this is so weird! LOL. It came up before that you and N were going through 3 with a fine tooth come, then said loading on the screen or whatever. then it just said "i think the project with eric is talking..."
Just an aside. Club Dead comes out in hardcover for the first time today, for those that collect. It was originally published in paperback only. I'll pick mine up on the way home.
Thanks for posting that, my friend has been waiting for it to be in hardcover.
Yes, me too. It was the only one never in hardcover.
Just finished my re-read of "Club Dead" (one of my favorites - so much action, so many scenes in that book).
What was the story with the hickey on Eric - Sookie notices it but does not say anything - the reader is led to believe that Bernard accompanied Eric to go borrow the getaway car (the Lincoln, with the infamous trunk) and that is how it happened? In the line of duty, per se?
helpful orientation in text: It happens right before Eric says he does not like having feelings.
that is how it happened? In the line of duty, per se?
Yep. He had to have Bernard accompny him in order to get back in the mansion.
"You mean … Oh, if you take Curly with you, they'll let you back in because he lives here?"
"Yes. But I may have to stay here. With him."
Bernard was his way of getting back in the mansion after getting her a car. Throughout CD, Eric is in disguise and playing a role. He was doing what he had to do to get the job done and it had to be convincing. Staying with Bernard ensured that he got back in the mansion and a hickey makes things convincing.
Oh, yuck.
But thanks, ashmarie for clarifying that one.
Well, if it makes you feel better, he did it - at least partially (since it saved his ass too) - for Sookie.
Well we don't know whether Eric 'stays' with Bernard because he comes back before dawn with the keys and the hickey and it also says that there was barely enough time to get out and back with the car before dawn, from what I remember, but there is definitely the implication there. I remember finding it a bit annoying that Sookie didn't pick up on the lengths Eric would/might have to go to in order to get her what she needed.
If it had just been a case of Eric and Sookie getting out Eric could just have left and sent a car/cab (or even Alcide) for Sookie later in the morning.
I remember finding it a bit annoying that Sookie didn't pick up on the lengths Eric would/might have to go to in order to get her what she needed.
Not only to get her what she needed, but to keep her safe in general.
Eric did a lot in CD that he didn't have to do, such as helping her at all after she was staked. He risked exposing himself and ruining any chance of finding Bill or recovering what he thought was Bill's "mission" from the Queen. His whole reasoning for coming to the club that night was to look out for her. He makes the decision to tag along after she reveals that she was assaulted the night before.
If he was just looking out for himself, he would have left her on floor at Club Dead.
Ashmarie, you just keep putting it so perfectly
As an aside, I just finished the re-read of CD, and it is so good, so full of action. One almost forgets how many scenes occur. It's like, OMG, all this in one book?!
And just when you think, ok, eric and sookie made it back home safe to BonTemps after being attacked at the gas station, and they are arguing as they get out of the car, they get attacked again in her house. Sookie received quite a few injuries in this book.
Oh, and a rare display of vampire vengeance when eric and bill attack and kill the pack of weres in sookie's house. It reminds you how dangerous vampires can be.:)
I love the line in Club Dead when she says something like the Goddess of really tough gals will have to forgive her if she closes her eyes. I think that's one of my favorite lines in the whole series. Priceless
I laughed out loud at that moment too!
HA! I don't even remember that line. Does anyone have a page number or scene to coax my memory?
They lost all control.
I saw firsthand what a vampire could do.
After a second, I realized my help would not be needed, and I decided the Goddess of Really Tough Gals would have to excuse me while I closed my eyes.
It's said after the Weres attack her in her house (after her fight with Eric in the driveway).
OH! ok, I love the scene but had forgotten the exact dialogue. Thanks!
I was just re-reading Club Dead, and I was specialy interested in the part where Bubba explains how he killed Jerry Falcon and put it in Alcide's closet, because somebody mentioned in another thread how Bill got into Tray's apartment aparentely uninvited. Do any of you know any explanation CH might have given about how Bubba was able to enter Alcide's apartment to put the body in the closet?
Bubba's special. It was explained in DTTW when Pam selected Bubba to be the one to provide them entry into where Hallow was. Given the circumstances of how he became a vampire - the fact that he was too far gone when he was turned - he is allotted benefits a normal vampire isn't.
I'll try to find the exact explanation...
"His, ah—the mental broadcast, the signature, you all get what I'm telling you?—is so, ah, atypical that they won't discover a vampire is near."
"Bubba is brain damaged, degraded. He's not altogether a true vampire. He can enter without an express invitation."
Thanks Ash!
Anytime. I have a mental encyclopedia of random SVM knowledge.
The new Club Dead TV tie-in paperback is out. Cover is the new poster with the snakes, and it looks great. On the spine, a little picture of Bill & Eric with Sookie in between, taken from the poster. Nothing new inside, no pictures from the show.
yeah i really like it! they gave the fans the first three books at the TB fan Exper. last night. im glad....hopefully the TB fans will become book fans and join together hahah
Club Dead is one of my top 3 faves of the SVM series. I loved all the scenes in that book! Remember when Eric was so distracted by his thoughts of Sookie - that she possibly would not want a relationship - that he was ambushed at the gas station?!
Oh no, here I go! Well, anyhoo, I love this book (Swoon).
Let's hope that AB leaves us some of the book to enjoy.
@geeful: I have high hopes for season 3, TB, a la Club Dead. So far many of the characters appear as if they can fit the bill: Russell, Debbie Pelt (hope she is as creepy as the books), Alcide exceeds my expectations and the limits of my imagination - I hated the version of him my brain came up with - he's a lot cuter on TV
so the weres, the were bar, the russell compound, lorena, etc, all fit club dead so far. I don't like the tara,franklin thing, only because franklin was supposed to be like 60 and grey, but debonair. no biggie, just sayin'.
ok, I hope i'm not heating up old arguments here but I combed through this entire thread without finding anything about this, so please just ignore it if it has been discussed before:
I listened to my audiobook of Club Dead again today and what struck me majorly was that Eric aparently tried to form a real blood bond with Sookie there! CH stated that the number of blood exchanges doesn't matter, as long as it's a mutual exchange.
In the healing scene in RE's mansion, he lets her drink from him and he becomes aroused.
"This will cure you of everything." Maybe healing her from her blood bond with Bill?
She drinks from him, he reaches his peak and she remembers Bill taking her blood.
"Eric groaned again, a deep and guttural sound, and his mouth trailed down to the side of my neck. "Don't bite me," I said."
She's contemplating having sex with him - even if she tells herself she should be icked out by the process, aparently, his blood was a turn on for her.
"I was an adult, I told myself sternly; true adults don't have sex just because the other person is skilled and pretty. Eric's fangs scraped my shoulder".
So he tried twice to take some blood in return from her. The question is... did he simply get carried away and became bloodlusty when he was going for her neck? Was it the arousal, the sexually charged scene? Since he got off during sookie's healing, I would say no.
PLUS, after everything we've learned so far, you could state that Eric can resist temptation easily if necessary, like he didn't bite her or taste her blood when she got staked in the nightclub.
Also, in ATG, we learn that he knows how to form a proper blood bond.
I think he's an opportunist againt and deliberatly tired to use this as a very early chance to bind Sookie closely to him before she could get back to Bill.
After Sookie showers, she comes back to the room and finds Eric with Bubba, who informs them that Bill is still alife.
"When i was able to think of anything else, I noticed vaguely Eric's expression was a bewildering blend of things: pleasure, regret, anger, satisfaction". Regret and anger that he couldn't bind her more closely before she met Bill again?
Eric of course knows the nature of a blood bond and the danger of Sookie having a rebound with Bill. He saw how loyal Sookie was towards Bill, even though he did terrible things to her in CD. When they were all 3 in the neighbour-apartment of Alcide and listen to him and Debbie, Sookie even longs for Bill to hold her and comfort her - even though he tried to rape her a few hours before!! I'm blaming this not only on him being her first bf, but also on the blood bond. Eric, always the strategist, discovered his feelings for her and tried to counteract with a bond on his own.
"I don't like having feelings"
That says it all My point being... if he really, deliberatly tried to form a bond with her, his early feelings for her must have been pretty strong.
What also struck me was that Eric did offer to heal her (minor) scratches of the were's nailmarks on her arm when he discovered them. But he didn't heal her bite-wound when he drives her home. Did he want to remind her of what Bill did to her? Curious to hear what you all think
But he didn't heal her bite-wound when he drives her home.
Well, that's a good point. Perhaps she's so angry and prickly - she won't really even talk with him - that he doesn't want to chance starting an argument or offending her when he's in a pretty good place. But leaving it there to remind her of what Bill actually did could be part of it, definitely.
I think we have to differentiate between what occurs when humans and vamps take each others' blood and an actual BB. In my mind they are two different things. And this is only made more confusing by CH's inconsistencies and mix ups. I don't think that B/S had an actual BB. Sookie doesn't describe feeling as warm and special or having the same access to Bill's feelings as she describes with Eric after their BB was formed in ATD. As a matter of fact, she describes Bill as cold and remote for the most part. However, I do think that Bill had started the process with her and may have been trying to form one the night he had her take his blood before they went to Fangtasia for the second time.
I'll have to check but I think E/S share blood during their lovemaking in DTTW, but perhaps not one directly after the other. Maybe intention counts... who knows, as CH has been cagey about the details.
At the very least, it's possible Eric was trying to start the process in that scene in CD you are referring to, but it could also just be normal vamp routine: if they give blood, they take a little in return. Feels good?
So intentional strategy or just part of the sexy, feel good moment? With Eric, it could be a bit of both!! 
"This will cure you of everything." Maybe healing her from her blood bond with Bill?
Oh wow....wow. I think you hit something here.
So he tried twice to take some blood in return from her. The question is... did he simply get carried away and became bloodlusty when he was going for her neck? Was it the arousal, the sexually charged scene? Since he got off during sookie's healing, I would say no.
I honestly think you are on to something here. I co-wrote a FF & it's a tweaked version of CD. I can't tell you for how many months I had CD open, going over every scene & trying to write a play on all the little subtle things & tweak them or make them apparent. Not that it makes me an expert but what I am saying is that I freakin read & re-read that book (plus others to substantiate) over & over to make sure I picked up on possibilities etc.. but I totally missed this & totally think you are spot on.
I think he's an opportunist againt and deliberatly tired to use this as a very early chance to bind Sookie closely to him before she could get back to Bill.
Sera! Plus think about this...at the end of LDID when she calls him for help - he says..."Bill is no longer your bedmate? The differences you developed in Dallas are permanent?"
Now take that little...."this will cure you of everything" context into context w/this & viola....I think you are right.
Also I just realized in LDID he calls her his "darling"....he progressed to "Dear one" then "my dearest" by the end of DITF....
Laura is your fanfic posted on Fanfiction or somewhere else? I would love to read it - I always like others book interpretations
So... are you thinking that an older vamp's blood will knock out or push aside the effects of a younger vamp's blood? That would be prior to an actual BB, right? Because I believe we've been told that nothing but time and/or distance can diminish an actual BB.
Or is it also that when he states "This will cure you of everything" he is meaning his intention of a mutual swap of blood, that she thwarts. That the BB will knock out any kind of blood connection that she has formed with Bill.
I think I'm answering my own question!
It's on FF & TWCS Kris under the name karmasabitch.
So... are you thinking that an older vamp's blood will knock out or push aside the effects of a younger vamp's blood?
Yes. His blood is stronger...hence Bill's reaction in LDID & his trying to instill more fear into Sookie but also admitting the age is a factor:
"Lying on top of me is not such a big treat," I protested, "that someone should take a bullet for it. Geez.
That's nuts!"
"It got some of his blood in you."
"Only a drop or two. I spit the rest out," I said.
"A drop or two is enough when you are as old as Eric is."
That would be prior to an actual BB, right? Because I believe we've been told that nothing but time and/or distance can diminish an actual BB.
yes - prior...
For some reason I thought that CH herself also stated that the older vamps blood would cancel out the younger vamps. Can't find it on her thread though, maybe it was in an interview. So, I think you are right!!
Thanks for the info on your fanfic Laura.
I don't have the link or else I would post it! Shows how much I check it! Umm...let me know if you find it. It's called Club Dead Redux. Hope you enjoy.
LOL! Wow. That's sad, Loo. How little you think of us as a whole.
Here is the link: Sookie After Dark: Club Dead Redux.
Thanks for the link!! I will be sure to read it. I'm still trying to rack my brain about where CH talked about the power of the blood - for some reason I thought she was answering someone's question - during one of her signing Q and A's maybe. When she would still talk about the BB and blood exchanges etc.
No, no! Sorry 
I am just ding batty like that. It's in my drafts folder which I am being lazy about looking for & believe or not, I didn't bookmark it! 
You know what Kris - we have a couple of BB specific threads - I have a gander through.
Thanks!
Oh, I found CH's condensed version of the BB answer - it's actually on her "Things to Know" page. I will try to cut and paste, although, I am still learning Mac commands (after a year of being a Mac user - duh).
She basically states that there is no science to the # of exchanges, that the age of the vamp impacts the outcome. Interestingly enough, she also states that forming of BB depends somewhat on emotions each individual has....
Kris, I would definitely check out the BB threads. There have been many intense discussions and analysis of the logic, factors, etc. about the blood bond.
We have her comments about that posted somewhere. Maybe the first Q&A thread? She addresses some BB questions in there.
Thanks, I will read those!
Ah - glad to not have warmed up something that has been discussed at length before Joining your forum, i feel like i've been forever behind everything since i only discovered SVM and TB this summer. I'm so excited about your points!
I really need to read up on the BB more... I do believe Sookie shares a bond with Bill. I mean really... he tried to rape her and she's cuddling with him in that flat next to Alcide??
"My body nestled into his out of habbit and out of a deep need; though i didn't know if the need was for Bill specifically; or the intimacy I'd only shared with him. I hated him. I loved him." (...) "I huddled closer against him".
Is that the normal reaction of a woman who was abused in her childhood and was brutally abused hours before? I have no personal experience on that, but i simply can't believe she feels the DEEP NEED to cuddle with her abuser?? Sookie is confused about this and so am I. This passage reminded me a lot of the times when Sookie feels warm and fuzzy when she's close to Eric after their blood bond, even when she was mad at him in the first place.
On the issue of the older vs. newer vamp blood:
"I'd never realized what a difference there would be between taking Bill's blood and taking Eric's."
She describes his blood as "awesome" and that she feels "wonderful". Why would CH stress this point so much if it didn't have any deeper meanings? This ties nicely to the convo between Bill & Sookie in LDID too.
I'm venturing an even wilder guess here and speculate that maybe the coldness Sookie felt from Bill at times was the coldness he had in him? Sorry, i'm a real Bill-hater
Maybe they didn't share a deep bond or maybe Eric's more potent blood (and more potent feelings?) created a more potent bond - but i get OT here... need to read up more!
Also - when she has Bill's blood for the 1st time - she is hunting prey..human prey, it's very dark & she makes a dry remark about it being exotic stuff for a barmaid from Bon Temps.
But when she has Eric's, yes... she feels awesome....
I am of many minds when it comes to Sookie nestling with Bill after rape scene. I think she does it out of habit, this is the only romantic relationship she's ever had, she thinks little of herself because of how other's have treated her and what she knows they think of her, and she was a child victim of sexual abuse. Bill was always very controlling of her, so maybe after taking Eric's blood she starts to come into her own and won't take his @#$ anymore. Bill is dark and cold, the opposite of what Sookie likes - warmth and sun.
Another thought on the early blood-bonding: Maybe it's just CH being "sloppy" (using the quotationmark very deliberately here) again. Maybe those early on bloodbonds are all she had ever intended for the series. That warm fuzzy feeling, knowing the emotions&location etc...
Maybe she added the intense ATD-bond later for even more drama and didn't stick to her original plans for the blood bonds. Her remark that she's somehow regretting this intense bond between Eric and Sookie could support that.
Laura, i'm off to read your FF now! I just love it when people re-write the books and show their perspective on things - i already love how you put Eric&Sookie there as pairing
Love your endless thought flows, Silke!
With Sookie's post-rape reaction, I think at that point she was in denial of what happened. It wasn't clear yet to her that Bill did rape her. Like in TB, maybe she was still justifying it as Bill's nature as a vamp, and her love for him (at that point she still loves him, she rescued him from the scary king's mansion) is masking whatever emotion she should feel after the trunk scene.
Clear example of the battered wife syndrome.
My take on vamp blood is like aging wine. The older it is, the better it gets, and the stronger its effect on the taster. 
Laura, I finished reading your FF - i loved it! I especially loved how you played up Eric's certainty that Sookie will be his... and i also loved the scenes between him and Bill.
After re-reading CD and your FF, i am now more sure than ever that Sookie tells her story from the future. Since we only hear her perspective, i think she mentions so often that Eric is sure they will end up together because they really do. The scene when he speaks of her as his future lover... maybe he did really use another word but she replaced it in her narration with this term because it turned out to be true.
Also, when she and Alcide go to CD for the second time... she hopes she will have a nice evening without getting hurt - which turns out to take a completely different end. She couldn't have known that if she didn't tell her story in the future.
Ok so I am re listening to this now that you all brought up such interesting points. I for the first time took notice of Alcide telling Sookie that bitten weres don't live very long "poor things" he calls them. Do you guys think that means Jason's life span is decreased?
Aw, thank you Silke, it was co-written w/Katherine (who is not on anymore) & Ash was super, super Beta.
She couldn't have known that if she didn't tell her story in the future.
Yeah I know you make great points. You know it's funny b'c after we posted, I realized I had to go back & correct all the tenses & one of the reasons is b'c in the CD she switches it & it does sounds like she is speaking in past tense. I had wondered if this was just an error on CH's part or on purpose.
Do you guys think that means Jason's life span is decreased?
Huh...I never thought of that.
Maybe CH will forget she wrote that. I mean shouldn't Sookie have brought it up when she found Jason. It was just a short time before that Alcide told her about it so it's not like she should forget. PLus she didn't know anything about bitten were when he told her. Being that it is the first thing she learned about them you would think it would stick with her.
Being that it is the first thing she learned about them you would think it would stick with her.
Not only that but I would imagine to keep it tight you would have to reference the previous books quite a bit.
Okey dokey.
Here's where CH really started to blow it.
"Eric had had my blood, so he could tell more about my emotions than a vampire who hadn't" p 51 pb
"I'm listening to what you say. I can tell you mean it. I've had your blood. I know your feelings." p. 245 pb
Okay. that's all. I just wanted to share that. 
