i am using tangler for a local tech entrepreneur group so I use the notification tool. I have however this user dekrazee1 in my contact list, and I am quite sure she is automatically added to all new users. I haven't seen any option though to remove a user from the contact list. how do i do? I keep receiving new notifications about this user every 5 minutes.

heri... no way that I know of to remove a contact yet ... but you can change the notifier so you do see the notifications for users (but leave it on for topics if you so desire)...its in the "notification" section of the preferences dialog. One of the options is only to be notified of messages I believe... not comings and goings.

We had the remove contact feature in a while back except it caused quite a few other issues along the way. I'm sure we will review it again at some stage.

Dekrazee is fantastic, but I understand that you would wish to remove an unknown contact.

I would love to be able to removed people I don't know aswell, as I also have dekrazee1 in my contact list. I appreciate them contacting new users, but I don't want status updates from her for ever when I don't know her :p

think of dekrazee1 as a virtual host who shows you around tangler, demonstrates functionality, handles introductions where you need them and pretty much keeps you up to date on tangler as a whole. shes a real person true, but she is also very much an entity within tangler.

using tangler for a local tech entrepreneur group? why not talk to dekrazee1 about what other groups already exist? you might not be interested in what they have to offer, but at the very least you might be able to gather new members via introduction. if you dig around, youll find entrepreneur groups relating to business, development, design, implementation, and testing.

im tapping into several for resourcing and advice and would highly recommend it.

at the same time, i am very much for being able to cut down notifications. i love what the guys have done with subscriptions for groups and topics, and would be very interested in seeing similar functionality implemented for users...

Thanks Richard.

For those irritated with the status updates, right click on the notifier,  select 'Preferences', click on 'Notifications' (listed on the left hand side) and you'll see a range of options for your notifier. You can disable status updates by unselecting the ticked boxes shown there.

I am not irritated about notifications...I just don't want status notifications for people I don't know or people I did not even add to my contact list, and in your case you were added automatically, so I assume anyone who send me a message is added automatically......I want notifications from friends, but not from strangers...

Is the official solution to disable notifications for everyone instead of being able to remove someone from your contact list?

Yes, we aren't able to remove contacts.

Apart from me, anyone else who wants to add you on as a contact has to send you a contact invitation. You then have the option to accept or reject those invitations (as with the group invites).

The only other people who get added on automatically are people you invite into Tangler directly.

I think the response was posted a while back sundby:

Minhster

then again dekrazee1 one beat me to it!

Thanks Bric!

extolling the virtues of dekrazee1

RichardPendergast: Bokardo talks a lot too about community managers, and I guess it makes sense if you trying to build something like flickr or tangler.

The thing is that i see more like twitter, ie a microsocial network where you are not "friends" with everyone else.

about your previous comment, I am using tangler for Montreal Tech Entrepreneurs, we have a group here which is working together quite well with democamps and barcamps and tangler seems a good solution -- for local issues.

I have changed preferences and dont get notifications now. I guess the problem is solved.

Good stuff heri

I will be blunt.

I do not want people, or even non-people, whom I did not invite in my contacts list .  I consider such intrusions extremely offensive & invasions of my privacy.

I do not permit strangers uninvited access to my home and there is no reason why I should be expected to permit them such access here.

I come to Tangler because it hosts discussion for WeeWars, a game which a thoroughly enjoy.  That Tangler is unwilling to respect my privacy makes the experience less enjoyable.

The inability of users to delete unwanted contacts makes Tangler a prime breeding ground for cyber-stalkers  and should make users hesitant to ever add others to their contacts list.

Hey Slugthog, thanks for being blunt. We know what you're saying and understand the issue.

Dekrazee1 works for Tangler and she helps new users and new groups get started with Tangler. We are a young product and do as much as we can to help new users get comfortable using Tangler since it's not your average forum.

So, as much as it irritates you, it helps most people and so we are going to keep her as a default contact.  As for not respecting your privacy, I feel most people would see someone politely saying hello and offering help as reasonable if not appreciated.

For everyone, the 'remove contact' functionality is coming soon which of course is a fundamental feature and will help alleviate this issue.

Thanks again for all of your feedback. If you have any direct issues regarding privacy etc, please contact us directly info@tangler.com

Making assumptions about how folx feel about intruders is presumptuous at best.  It would not surprise me if there were others, more polite than am I, who are also not entirely comfortable with the presence of an uninvited guest in their home - isn't that what we call our main page?

It seems more sensible to allow users a choice as to whether to have a stranger in their home.

I can see why Tangler would want everyone to have a "helper" who would meet&greet them.  It spooked me though, as Dekrazee1 just seemed a weird username for a hopefully friendly, "official" person. And when I viewed her profile, although it mentioned tangler and clearly  had loads of groups, it wasn't clear that she was a tangler person. A bit of a tagline saying who she is and why she'd appear on one's contact list would be good!

dekrazee1 is the successor to dekrazee, a tanglebot that won many awards at Turing Machine competitions throughout the world.
 Most people, when asked, find the interaction to be as warm, entertaining and human as a real, live person. 

LOL @ Fred

Laurie, I think those are good suggestions. I will try and make it clearer who I am in my profile. 

So your profile is now going to say..

I'm De Kraaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaazee1 and you can't get rid of me. HAHAHA

Should make everyone feel welcome.

heh thanks Sir Montague! You're a help!

@ Sir Monatague:  Point well made!

Turing competitions notwithstanding and speaking only for myself - I prefer to choose my friends (contacts).

i understand that - just my cheap, off topic attempt at humor.

Assume you rent an apartment.  When you move in you find a stranger sitting on a chair in the corner.  You soon discover that you cannot make that stranger leave...

in the south, that would be the preacher at the local church!

sorry, i did another one...

Perhaps the name is a part of the problem or the placement as a contact.

I know I lived in Shreveport, LA way back before time began.

why get rid of

dekrazee1

he rocks

*ahem*

she

slugthog - Can you please help me understand what you meant re your analogy? A stranger in your apt, and dek as your contact are two different things aren't they? I won't know anything more about you than anyone else who checks out your profile. How is it an invasion of privacy?

Your a She? Ok, Opps, please accept my aplology. will make it up to you on bended knees :p

I thought that the dekrazee1 transcended categorization?

Got me there Bric! "She" works mainly, but it's not a 100% true tag

And Micron, no apologies needed mate... however, if you do wanna bake me a cake or some brownies to make up, who am I to stop ya?

First a quick jaunt around Robin's Barn.

I am reclusive.  I grew up in an environment where privacy was never an issue because no one would presume upon another.  We seldom raised our voices, always telephoned before we visited, even the neighbor next door whom we had known for years, and never entered someone's home without first knocking and being bade enter.

She Who Must Be Obeyed, my current wife,  comes with a very different history.  She is extremely social, most of her conversations are carried on at high volume and folx often visit uninvited.

The INet is a peculiar place.  In most cases we enter it from our personal spaces - homes, apartments, office cubicles.  The more our interaction on the net conforms to our interactions in the tangible world the more comfortable we are with it.

That said we all bring our personal assumptions into our INet interactions. Some folx come from very fluid environments where everyone's noise overlaps that of everyone else and people wander freely into and out of each other's homes others are more comfortable with knock first and wait.

--

Labels confer context. My Home space on Tangler carries an implicit context that it is my domain - an area which I can define.  The first thing I noticed when I opened my domain was that it already had an occupant, an stranger who claimed a social connection with me.  Worse than that this stranger had a label, a name, that suggested that I use caution in dealing with it.  It was crazy, unpredictable, a possible threat, someone or something that I could not fully trust and it was in my private domain.

My private space, in Tangler was not private at all.  I did not control who might or might not enter.  There was already one stranger, and a dangerous one at that judging from its name.  How could I feel confident that another stranger would not also impose itself upon me.  I couldn't.  Tangler had already demonstrated that I had no control over my selection of contacts.  I had no control over my privacy.

hmmmm... okay, I can understand that...

Thanks for clarifying that for me slugthog.  :)

You are welcome.

Yep, thanks for that Slugthog. It's hard as a beta not having the full features we'd like and expect ourselves. But we are listening and we are working on it.

Have you thought about badging of some sort? That way you could make it obvious right from that start that although dekrazee1 is an individual and as such deserves a personal profile, she is also a Tangler employee here to help out and nurture the community. I think changing the name would only solve part of the problem and introduce new ones - after all who would want to interact with a user named TanglerSupport? And interaction is a key part of Tangler. Seeing regulars like Bric and Chapel and Marty and Dekrazee1 around is what makes coming back pleasurable.

By the way, you can call me slug, or you can call me sluggy or you can call me slugster or you can call me slugger but please don't calls me Johnson

Thanks for the shout-out Richard... but to make sure there is no misconception in anyones mind, I have no affiliation with Tangler.  I'm merely a fan and occasionally dedicated beta tester (when I don't forget, due to enjoying myself so,  that I signed up when it was a 'restricted' beta to give some feedback)

I like slugger... who's Johnson?

Bric, you might not be part of Team Tangler, but I see you as a friend

Comes from a very old vaudeville routine.  Johnson is vernacular for a man's privates

Well, yeah, but why would anyone call you..... nevermind... I don't think I've woken up yet

ok...this is spooky...

And Micron, no apologies needed mate... however, if you do wanna bake me a cake or some brownies to make up, who am I to stop ya?

How you know I baked lol
 

Do you? Jackpot!!

Maybe if there were a welcome message (either a webpage or an e-mail) describing dekrazee1's role, that would make things clear right from the get-go when a new Tanglerer(ererer) comes along.

Yes I bake, and cook too

micronwave! 

hahaha funny

LOL @ fred

I think a default message from Dekrazee1 would help.

I've added some info to my profile, so that should help too...

And everyone already gets a (friendly) message from me anyways

I've never been 100% sure who is part of tangler or not, so i like RP's idea of badging. It could be something simple like an icon after your name, or even just changing the colour of your name to make it stand out from the crowd.

(This one might be suitable for Dek though)

@ Sir Montague: "I've never been 100% sure who is part of tangler or not, so i like RP's idea of badging."

Perhaps a simple scarlet letter might suffice?  I say this somewhat in jest, of course, as you and RP  raising an extremely important question of trust.  That acknowledged,  going back to when I was a fairly new user, I took the time check the profiles of people and found, to my satisfaction information to identify and  put comments from the Tangler gang in context.

What concerned me more, in fact, was when people who appeared to be competitors of Tangler, or at least shills for others, said nothing to identify themselves.  Biases, of course, showed in some of their postings but  we all have biases of one sort or another, and we can have interesting exchanges regardless - so bias or other influence should no more keep a person from contributing than say the country they are from.  What was sometimes missing from their profiles, however, was an indication of who they were representing [or shilling for].  I don't believe in the Scarlet Letter approach, but I do believe in encouraging ALL participants to be open about their affiliations  where it might be seen  by  reasonable people to be relevant to interpreting their comments in a  debate or conversation.

I personally think that a badge for some would not be an advance but rather the start of breaking of community into classes of participants.  If more is needed than recognition in each Team Tangler member's profile  of their affiliation (and as I said, I think not) then  perhaps for greater certainty of those that wonder, why not put the ids  (links to profiles) of the Tangler team in the about page of the 'official' Tangler pages (not just the creator of the group).... Other than the very few "official" Tangler groups (like this Tangler Feedback) there are few where instances where their id is relevant to the course of having a conversation with them.

The Bricoleur is not affiliated with Tangler in any way. He is not hiding behind his nome de plume and his true Identity (i.e. Name) is revealed in his profile.

Bricoleur: Well said, and I think I can agree.  Perhaps the real issue lies only in identifying official Tangler personnel, and this can be accomplished in a number of ways, only one of which is a system of badges that would apply generally to all members.

No identifying Tangler personel is not the real only issue, there are at least two other significant  issues, as I clearly pointed out earlier, intrusion & name.   Y'all may well chose to ignore them, perhaps because they are contrary to your expectations and because it is more comfortable to understand those agree with your expectations than it is to consider change.

dekrazee1's name is threatening and its uninvited presence in a new users private space is rude & inappropriate, i.e. offensive.

We are not ignoring the issue slugthog. The remove contact feature is being worked on.

I understand your point of view, but it is also one in the minority. Most people I communicate with are glad that someone is reaching out to them, and that I am there to help them with anything they need assistance with. Not everyone is comfortable coming into an open forum (here) and asking something. The system we have in place right now also aids with making our new users comfortable, and the process also helps us (users and I) build a relationship. I count many of them among my friends now. I should also point out that what we have in place has been an evolutionary process. We are at the stage we are now because this works best for now. We'll just have to see how it evolves in the future.

As for my name, I have been using it for more than 10 years, and not one other person has said it is threatening. Many people (including yourself) use nicknames, and I am not about to change mine. I have been using it in Tangler since the early days, and it is a part of my identity. It is how people know me.
 

well said, dekrazee1... glad to consider you a friend btw.

@slugthog: I believe Mick gave you an answer back on August 22, ie:

"Yep, thanks for that Slugthog. It's hard as a beta not having the full features we'd like and expect ourselves. But we are listening and we are working on it."

The rest of the conversation in this topic carried on from that point -- including additional suggestions, and ideas of various users (and the members of the Tangler Team) to do MORE than just add the remove contact feature.  Still you are not satisfied.  I'm using the Tangler system (and have been doing so since the 'private' Beta days) because I see promise in it, and I like being able to give feedback and suggestions to a company that has shown many, many, many times over that they are responsive and working hard to adopt the well thought out suggestions of their testing user base.

You have chosen to have your argument in public, so may I be so bold as to suggest that you wait to see if the team at Tangler do follow up with what they've said (you do understand the concept of beta software by the way?) before continuing the harangue? This one's been captured, so lets move on together -- adding new suggestions to collectively help improve the product/service and build the community.
 

I wrote my first program in 1962 on an IBM-1620 and am no stranger to beta-testing.

As regards dekrazee1's name.  I explained earlier the *context * in which is was threatening and why.  Beyond that context I have no concerns with regard to her nickname.  Nor has anyone in the long established assgard family of whom I am the pater familius.

I have had a continuous net presence since the early Nineties (dang it seems longer)   - though I have worn slugthog for a very long time  I realize that it is, at best, whimsical, hence is not the nick I use when presenting myself as a professional or as a representative of a business.

I have been party to thousands of discussions such as this in my life. Though you may think me argumentative ; it is not my intention to be so. I rather envision myself as a leadsman announcing shoals and reefs in waters over which I have so often traveled.

Minor aside: slugthog: You can click the pencil icon (to the immediate left of the timestamps to edit your message. 

i think you're great dekrazee1 - you can reach out to me anytime!

I'm lonely :o(

And you're welcome for a visit anytime!

Super-cool-aroonie and thank you.  And no affront taken to your aside.

Alongside your aside , those icons are nearly invisible to these aged eyes.

I too wondered at first who this "dekrazee1" was.  I hope to see Tangler mature into something suitable for "professional" use, and I think it would be a good idea to make it much clearer that this is a trusted user, like an admin or a moderator, and not just some interloper.  Many online systems display something like "(Admin)" or "(Moderator)" after the name of such a user.  In this case it could be something like "(Tangler Helper)".  An icon or a special colour won't do the job because only those who are in-the-know will understand its meaning.

Whut he said. 

yes, felicopter's idea is good

where is your sense of adventure??

yeah, some kind of "trust" denotation might be helpful.

As much as I personally appreciated the random crazy person who decided to adopt me and introduce me to everything around here ... I must admit I never realized she actually worked for Tangler ... I thought I'd accepted an invite early on  

I have to say: I would suggest changing your name, dakrazee1, but I would suggest that it would be appropriate for the automatic introductory contact to be called ... TanglerStaff or TanglerHelper or something else unmistakably official sounding in nature ... (and frankly, I think it would be more ... uhm ... professional ... to pretend that this user was actually the collective efforts of th tech support staff, or something).

We all love dekrazee1, but let us meet her on our own terms (which I agree would go better if she had an [employee] tag)

did you forget an "n't" on the end of one of your "would"s? It feels like one of them should have been a negative, since you used but in between

So should I feel offended that I haven't been contacted by dekrazee1? Or should I just file a bug report

nomine - looks to me like you were invited by a friend, so when you signed up, I didn't get added as a default contact.

I do usually tend to go through and send new members like yourself an add contact invitation, but i have been ill this week and have fallen behind. Don't be offended - just blame the flu virus!

ah that would explain it, I was just puzzled because other friends who were invited around the same time had you on their contact list

Get well soon (if not already). 

Thanks

Still sick

*cough cough*

*sniff*

yeah keep your germs to that side of the office please

Yeah.... good thing there's no one else on this side!

didn't work now I am sick *cough cough*

OOPS

Hey Dee (dekrazee1, dek, deezee, dozy, caffy etc) the thought of your nick being threatening in some way is laughable. Having got 'to know you' over the past three years I am astounded that some berk finds your presence an intrusion and extremely offensive and an  invasion of his privacy. Bloody paranoid septic tank. Bet he still checks for reds under the bed...

Fair enough heller.

He was making a point, telling us what he thought of his initial experience and we all discussed it, and I consider the matter resolved.

Everyone gets to say what they think, as you have just done, and we aren't all gonna agree, but I don't take it personally, and no one should.

It's all good

no one should...but a lot do

Now heller, about that avatar of yours, it could scare the living crap out of someone.... any thought that you might change it for the weak spirited?

Yeah Lost Soul you could be right...It might be looking for those such as thee...

Seriously, I have been considering a change...the bastard thing even scares me

LOL

Hahahaha lol ^^^

How do I stop receiving notifications about "stop receiving notifications from user dekrazee1"?
You don't have to answer that because it would just cause another notification... 

Seriously though, the only way to do that now, I think, would be to unsubscribe from the group and un/subscribe to individual topics. That's too much granularity. I want to stay subscribed for new topics, but ignore others once they stray too far from the original idea. (Not that this one isn't completely scintillating). 

There was a paper published recently that describes how long an unmoderated message thread takes to dissipate into vapidity. Now, I can't find the reference to it. Would be cool to visualize that effect by having the topic fade out over time. Dense, young topics might float to the top of the topics list while the long tail of older topics would be below. Just thinking out loud...
 

Disclaimer: This post is off-topic...

That's an interesting idea... I quite like it

Since we're tangling, I could "branch" this discussion into a new topic. There would be some link to show the history and origin for those that cared.

Except the latest topics are already at the top of the list right now....

So this would be one level above that.... giving priority to the newest topics

Yeah, that one is something we've been thinking about for a while - splitting/branching topics

New topics deserve to be at the top.

Why?

splitting/branching topics - That would be a worthy startup concept to get right.

Just based on how I use it - The topics list is where you go to see what's new, recent, etc. I tend to use the home page to jump to existing topics that I've already participated in.

Sometimes new info or ideas pop up about old topics. So I find it natural to see them return to the top. Maybe you could put old topics in a different colour (less flashy than the colour of new topics),  when they return to the top.

Yeah, that's a good point actually....

Being able to double-subscribe or unsubscribe from topics within a group that's already subscribed too would be a welcome addition I think - for situations like "I'm interested in the group, but not this topic" or "I'm interested in this group, but want specific notification of anything new in this topic, because its an awesome topic in an average group"

oh, also some kind of "mark as unread" so you can remind yourself to come back and check a topic again

A "mark as unread" option would be very useful.

+1 for mark as unread

+1 for ignoring threads in subscribed groups.