This one is for Pistos


The greylist is a valuable thing to have, helps keep players honest - but unfortunately it's a life sentence as far as I can tell. There should be some way for greylisted players to redeem themselves and be taken off the list.

There was an altercation between two players (edit: I don't feel like including players names, this shouldn't be about individual issues) where one ended up on the greylist for droning. He admitted to it in the community chat, and apologized, but there's no recourse for him except to quit playing or start a new profile.
It seems like there should be a published protocol for players who want to redeem themselves.

Yeah, not only did I apologize, I even offered to make amends by playing a few rounds w/ InigoMontoya then to surrender to give back the points (probably more than he lost actually). But he's been insistent on making sure he defames my account, for which I've paid good money for a Pro account. Anyways, I'm glad there are some forgiving members out there at least. It's not like I just said, "Sorry about that" and just left it at that. I gave a more than sincere apology, but to no avail.

It's not like the wwpa is actually part of Weewar, I'd venture a guess that most players don't worry about it.

Winter - I agree, but I wanted to put this somewhere that Pistos would see it and be able to decide if he felt it was worthwhile.

bonchon & red, I know I already told you this in your game chat, but i'd like to reiterate it here for the record

Inigo was not the only one who called for the greylisting or witnessed behavior that caused it.  In fact, greylisting (as I found out) is incredibly tough to cause.

Incredibly.  Tough.

While it may concern some that greylisting can happen easy, I assure you that the case must be beyond rock solid, as it was in this case.

How people react to the greylisting, and how someone who is greylisted reacts to it, is another question entirely.  I think the consequences are actually pretty mild and in no way exceed the reason why they were dealt.

If anything, I found greylisting to not go far enough, but this is my own opinion.  Anyone who thinks that greylisting is too much can feel free to disregard it.  However, just to expand on what Winter said, it is not an official part of WeeWar, the developers have nothign to do with it, it is a 3rd party guide for experienced players.

Warmech - please keep your discussions with red separate from me. I merely stepped in to speak when I felt the drama was getting ridiculous.

As far as greylisting goes, even if red/miguel/whatever name he uses had done something ridiculously overboard and deserved even worse, that has nothing to do with my point. My point is that since the greylist exists to act as a public list of players to avoid, there ought to be something those players could do if they wanted to be "good guys" again.

It shouldn't be easy to get off the list, since as you say, it's not easy to get on it in the first place.

bonchon, I apologise for the confusion.  But I hope, in retrospect, you now realise that you only added to the drama today by getting involved and taking sides without fully understanding the situation (trust me, you don't) or trying to get a real discussion between the two parties going.  It becomes really hard to separate the issues from the people when they start taking sides.

For those who have no idea what happened (ie me), could some one explain?

What's droning??

dekrazee1: Droning is being or using a drone player.  From the WWPA Certification page: "A drone player [is] defined as a player in a game being used to augment or benefit the in-game welfare or point rating of another player with little to no regard for its own in-game welfare or rating.

I can agree that people should be given the chance to redeem themselves.  If you look at the greylist you'll note that one player is on probation.  This is the first time I'm putting someone on probation.  I haven't solidified the rules yet, but tentatively:

- It's always been the case that people that are greylisted have a chance to send an e-mail to the WWPA to try to make an appeal.

- If the original evidence becomes suspect, or new evidence is strong enough to cast doubt on the original case, I will undo the greylisting.

- If the appeal fails (i.e. insufficient reason to remove from the greylist), a greylisted player can ask to be put on probation.

- To exit probation (be removed from the greylist), the player on probation must join the WWPA (if not already a member) and raise their certification level by some amount.  I have not yet decided what this amount is, or whether it should vary on a case by case basis.

So, this is the general idea, subject to change as I think more about it, as more cases occur, and as WWPA members give me their thoughts on the matter.

I know WarMech's involvement in this whole thing was to try to mediate and all, but I would like to know (with all due respect) why he became involved in the first place? Is he somehow involved as a right-hand man of Pistos? Just wondering whether he might have overstepped his bounds at all by saying that it was ok for him to get involved, yet questioned Bonchon's involvement, when Bonchon only expressed his opinion, which he has a right to do. Not only that, but I just thought it was awkward for WarMech to come into the game I was playing w/ Bonchon to interject and try the discussion with Inigo.  So again, my question is, what is WarMech's role with anything related to Weewar. Basically, are you a made-man or just a bystander? I just need to know.

without knowing, it seems analogous to a sandbox dispute between two kindergarten kids, and instead of the kindergarten teacher making them shake hands, a 2nd grader decided to take over.

I'll let WarMech speak for himself, but in general: Anyone is allowed to bring violations of WWPA standards to my attention.  Reporting is not limited only to victims.  The greylist is about raising community awareness for those that want to be careful about such things.

That's not what I was talking about. I was talking about the "mediation". Made it seem like he was in charge or something like that.

red, for the love of God, just quit while you're ahead.  You claimed that you wanted to settle things, and I settled things, and still you complain and raise pointless questions.  Hey, I've got a suggestion... maybe you should be thankful (for once) that you got what you asked for on the public chat instead of continuing to make an issue out of this.

Do you love dancing around the question? I asked a pretty easy question to answer...who made you the point of contact to mediate. That's all I asked. Once you answer that, I might actually stop...what a concept...

Actually I answered that question, check the chat from your game with bonchon.  On top of that, your question is way offtopic from the thread.  The original question from the thread has been answered by Pistos.

Okay, I'm finished with this, Red.  I did you a gigantic favour and you still demonstrate that you just want to be a jerk.  If you want to keep being a Drama Queen, go for it.

It's just funny how you preached "play nice" and all that in the game with Bonchon, yet here you go, going against the grain with the same name calling that you scolded yesterday. I'll let it go though. I'm sure everyone's tired of it. But I'm sure you'll respond to this. You can't seem to not have the last word.

hahaa, you guys are funny

anyway, I am in the WWPA, but I actually never look at the list before playing someone, and I doubt many other people do, and those that do ... I don't think they are even in the same league as you red. However, I am not sure if its smart to advertise your being on the greylist in your profile

erm, further reading your profile, you even admit that you WILL kick players that go over the limit, so you wouldnt be a WWPA candidate anyway, so I dont really get what youre so worked up about.

Anyway, as much as I enjoy sticking my nose in other peoples buisness, this is probably where my involvement ends