There was a thread started a while ago about organizing a map contest, but I haven't heard any discussion of it lately. Are people still interested?

I think someone(s) should just take initiative   Draw up some rules, put them out for feedback, then launch the contest in a short while.

there's a wiki page for it...

Ok, the Wiki page is all ready to go, and the poll engine is set up in the background.

Basically, people can upload their maps in the included gallery for the next two weeks, and we can open up voting for another week (or two?).

Once the submission period is ended, all the maps can be shown on the contest page, and the poll can be made to appear throughout the Wiki as a module.

Here's the page for the contest - http://weewarwiki.com/tiki-index.php?page=Map+contest - should I turn it on and link it on the Wiki? Any ideas before we start?

sry. I got real swamped at work this week.

i'm still interested in organizing it

madmike, check out the page and tell me what you think...

I don't think you should have people submit PER category. Just let them submit a map and then the jury decides who gets which award. I mean: what if I submit my map in the wrong category? Or should I submit them in all categories?

Look at the Oscars for instance. Everybody makes movies, and THEN the awards are given in different categories.

i second peter777's idea

Ok, I'll set up one single gallery to put them all in. In that case, instead of limiting people to one map per category, let's say five maps limit per user?

3 per user.

5 per user will take too long.

Done and done. The map contest is on the wiki now.

Here's the rules:

• 3 maps per person max
• Deadline for submissions will be Friday night at midnight EST on April 4th. That weekend, the judging panel will categorize the best maps and set them up for voting by the community.
• Judges may not submit their own maps.
• Judges have to be in the WWPA, no greylist, and have played at least 100 games on Weewar.
• There will be twelve judges. First come first serve, so anyone who signs up to be a judge after twelve qualified people raise their hands will be an alternate. To volunteer, put your Weewar username in the comments on the contest page.

i think the jugdes may not submit their own maps rules is problematic, since map makes can be good judges. I would suggest we change it so that the jugdes may not vote/favor for their own maps during their tasks. They could only vote for maps submitted by others or abstain.

Ok, I changed that rule on the wiki.

Shouldn't people add the number of the map in weewar with the image, so you can play and test it?

Good idea. I put that into the rules page, too - people should put a URL pointing to their map so people can easily copy it.

Just so i understand the wiki properly (and for the others who aren't familiar):

I will need to take a screenshot of the map and upload that into the image field? Is this right? I tried just using the URL field, but there was a thumbnail error generated when I just did that.

Just need a little clarification.

Okay, i figured it out. Please disregard.

The URL wasn't working for me though.

If you just use the URL from Weewar, the wiki will copy it over. Go to your map page in Weewar and right-click, then choose "copy image location" (if you're using Firefox).

Two things all map contest submissions should be sure to do:

• Register on the wiki so that you can log in and have your name on the map
• Include the URL of your map in the title you give it on the wiki (see examples on weewarwiki)

Gotcha. Thanks.

Glad your maps are in the contest, I think they're really cool

Thanks, bonchon. I'm still working the kinks out of a few more, but i'm pretty happy with the submissions. I'm looking forward to checking out all the other weewar cartography that's happening right now. It's an exciting time in the annuls of weewar history.

I feel all tingly just to be involved.

I uploaded two maps. No thumbs where created. I thought that would happen automatically and now the maps are removed. Thank you.

It should have done - sorry. Can you upload them again and I'll try to see what's going on?

erm, where should I put my name if I wanna become a judge?

btw: I dont really like the idea of submitters not being able to determine for which category they are submitting, but I'll live

put your name in the comments on the wiki page if you want to be a judge

ps - you could always make a note in your submission that you feel your map is best for one category or another

12 might be too high. I say 6 is more then likely to happen sooner. just a thought

Well, I uploaded one image again, but no thumbnail is created. Why is that, because it does say it creates thumbnails? Furthermore, I cannot edit the comment, and gee, I don't see a picture either....! Doesn't it accept gifs maybe?

Ok, I made a new jpg and now it works.

I forgot to add a link to Meeting Engagement. It is http://battleground2.weewar.com/map/21401 

Mike, I think you're right. I was thinking there might be a rush to judgement (heh - sorry) so we should leave plenty of slots. let's drop it down

And the link to Croos Country is http://battleground2.weewar.com/map/19971.

There isn't a way of editing an entry?

Hmm... not sure what WWPA membership has to do with mapmaking (and judge fitness), but hey. 

I entered a map, but had a typo (weewar.com/maps/19928 with an s, rather than weewar.com/map/19928).  Is there any way I can fix this?  It is great to see everyone's maps, btw.

Radrx - there are three little icons under the image, the middle one is "edit." It's not very easy to see. I've made that edit for you, btw.

I can't see how to upload it to the map gallery.  It keeps going in to the system gallery.

When you click on the Upload Maps on this page http://weewarwiki.com/tiki-browse_gallery.php?galleryId=1 you will get this page http://weewarwiki.com/tiki-upload_image.php?galleryId=1

when you upload, just make sure the dropdown box has the Map Gallery selected, and it ought to work...

I'm logged in in wiki, but I only see one icon for popping up a window.

I started a 2 vs. 2 tournament using one of the new maps:  Battle of the Pond

http://www.weewartournaments.com/join.php?id=112

Bonchon, I'll have to try another browser, Safari doesn't give me any options in the drop down.  And shouldn't your name be Schtroumpf ?

@radrx: please keep comments pertain to the topic.do not spam.

Hmmm.  I've never been acused of spamming before, I didn't think of this as spamming.  I thought it was a cool idea for the new maps, and others might want to do the same.  Since it appears to be offensive, I will avoid doing so in this message thread.  My apologies.

ty

lol Strotroumpf

bonchon, you can remove my black entry.

will do

Thanks, I still don't know how you can edit your own entry (adding a link for instance).

I don't know either.  For this one: http://weewarwiki.com/tiki-browse_image.php?galleryId=1&sort_mode=created_desc&imageId=34&scalesize=o

Can you please add the link: http://battleground3.weewar.com/map/19278

You have to be logged in to edit. There are three little icons below your thumbnail once you log in - the middle one is edit. It looks like two horizontal arrows pointing both ways.

I think the maps all look great, but I want to clarify what awards will be given.

Possible Awards:

• Best 2 player
• Best 3 player
• Best 4 player
• Best 5 player
• Best 6 player
• Best huge
• Best medium
• Best small
• Best overall

Optimally, there would be a first and second place for every award, so we can see the runners up. It all depends on how many contestants there are, of course, or how many we nominate. To be fair, every map should be made playable so they can be tested. Currently (please correct me if I'm wrong), only maps made by pro players can be published and played.

Lastly, I think some may be having trouble editing their own entries because they have new accounts on the wiki. Maybe certain privileges are only available after a few days. I cannot find the "edit" icon when I am logged in.

I believe these are the  award categories with a winner, runner-up and honorable mentions:

1. ABC(Asthetics, Balance, and Challenge) Award
2. 1vs1 Award
3. Multiplayer Award
4. Pro Unit Award
5. Basic Unit Award
6. Out of the Box Award

So we got 6 categories after all now?

BTW: I would say that not all these awards MUST be given out. If there is no map that we deem out of the box, then we dont just give it to anyone

i concur

Does anyone know what to do about the maps made by non-pro users? Once we have narrowed down the contestants, we need a weewar admin to move the maps to a special 'map contest testing' site.

non pro users cant publish, so there is no way to see their maps is there?

it's easy to re-create the map from a screen shot.

I think there should be fewer categories, rather than more categories. Given the fact there are only 29 current maps (some of which seem to be dupes), having 6 categories or more really doesn't say much about the quality of the maps winning. I know that there were some suggestions of not finding it necessary to fill all the slots, but it seems strange to have so many categories for so few submissions.

Now I'm sure the number of new maps will go up as the deadline approaches, and sincerely hope that it does, but it seems like it would be a good idea to just award the top three maps the awards, add those to the open rotation and do the same thing next quarter, when there will be no doubt lots of maps to choose from. At which point, more categories could be added with little trouble.

For the first round however i think we should keep it small, simple and to the point.

I would say the categories should be:

1. Best One on One.

2. Best Multiplayer.

3. Best Show

I also think that instead of having runners up for category there should just be a list of "honorable mentions" that do not make the cut into general rotation.

But that's just me, and heck, i'm just happy to be here.

I prefer mikes first 3:

1. ABC(Asthetics, Balance, and Challenge) Award
2. 1vs1 Award
3. Multiplayer Award

but hey, we can change anything once the deadline is over, see how it goes. Use this first run as a test.

Best Show is same as ABC.

Is there any way to run statistics on maps played?  For example, there is probably a reasonable formula that could be used for predicted win (based on ratings alone) vs. actual win.  This would be nice to use for 1 vs. 1 games in particular, to statistically assess balance of play for blue vs. red.

Regarding # of categories, it may be difficult to compare some maps within few categories.  For example taking 1 vs. 1 maps, a sea battle vs. land battle vs. air battle map might be very different and subject to personal preference.  Ditto for large vs. small 1 vs. 1 maps.  An alternative to multiple categories, would be for people to simply "rate" each map based on various categories (i.e. asthetics, balance, air, land, sea, size, etc.).  I could envision this being used in the future for people to decide which game to play (i.e. if they want to play a map that would be good for sea battles, they could sort rankings by that factor... or only look at small maps and then rank by balance of play, etc.).

On a separate note, will initial credits and credits/base be considered in the contest? When re-creating a map from a screenshot to play it, this information would be necessary.

I think money per base is part of the map and should be considered

I agree with the earlier point that too many categories might be a little too "everyone's a winner."  How about:

1. ABC
2. Out of the box
3. 1 on 1
4. Multiplayer

And the same map could potentially win in more than one category, if it warrants it?

The judges will determine which maps get voted on in which categories, so there's nothing that says a multiplayer can't also be out of the box, for example.

Submissions will be accepted until Friday, April 4th at 11:59pm EST.

You all have 11 hours!

I submitted my three

I think all submissions need info about starting credits and credits per base if that is not already noted on the map page on weewar. Certainly, this affects how the map will be played and how balanced it is.

hmm, out of the box? well, you can add/sub points for a good, say ABC map of like large, or small, depending on which size is harder to make the categories criteria. if it is harder to do so.

I think we should definitely award maps based on "fairness to all players," or, as was previously stated, "balance." One of the most important aspects of a map is that it be fair and not give the first player an advantage. Also, maps need to look good. I am a fan of asymmetry.

I think we should have the following:

1. ABC
2. Out of the box
3. 1on1
4. Multiplayer
5. Basic Units
2008-04-05 08:36:38.0

Judges - let's put forward our nominees so we can start the voting on Monday!

I think the best thing to do is email each other?

i think emailing takes some time

should we just put opinions forth on this thread?

bonchon, thats a good idea: you can go ahead. but before we write the map opinions we need to agree on the categories

Do you guys have skype?

I second jeye's five categories. Most maps seem to be pro maps (with harbors, airfields, or repair patches), so it's good to have a map that can go into the basic set. These maps should be tested without pro units.

i agree with jeye's categories too

i have skype, but maybe a group chat could be better

Jeye's categories it is, then. It's noon EST right now - how about we chat at 4pm EST?

Jeye - what do you suggest for group chat? We could do a Meebo chat room, or whatever...

I dont have skype, and neither do I have internet at home this weekend

oh, I also dont know the difference between EST and GMT (my zone) but that I could find out...

Since we're all dispersed geographically, let's just comment here.

There are 45 maps up now, and 5 categories. In the final voting, it would be good to have 3-5 maps in each category, so there could be one winner and one or two runners up per.

Each judge should suggest 3-5 maps per category to get us started, and let's argue it out from there until we have our nominees for the vote.

My first nominations:

ABC

• Choices
• Small Air Fight,
• Strirling's Air Raid
• Lesser Evils
• Hostile Shore

 
 Out of the box

• Earth
• Stirling's Europe
• Stirling's Air Raid
• Scary Pirate Island

1on1

• Small Air Fight
• Choices
• Last Man

Multiplayer

• Hostile Shore
• Gnarly
• Sixually Active
• Snowflake
• Open Diamond

Basic Units

• Ytterbium
• Desert Oases
• Last Man

 ( I think Warlords and Blue Lagoon are awesome of course, but I can't nominate since they're mine )

Desert Oasis is a pro map (repair bays)

Uh, there aren't repair patches on (my) map Desert Oases... http://weewarwiki.com/tiki-browse_image.php?galleryId=1&sort_mode=created_desc&imageId=51&scalesize=o

Also, bonchon I think you forgot to split "Earth, Stirling's Europe" under Out of the Box into two bullets.

Yup. Forgot to split that. Thanks.

Also, there are three versions of jumpship. I think the oldest two should be removed, especially since counting those two, iroam has put up four maps.

There are also two batcave maps and two tenochtitlan maps, although the older one has no author.

And a few other maps without authors.

who else is the judges? I forgot where i can find that list

Winter
Madmike
Streen
Jeye
Cypy
Bonchon

ok

i sent invites to new forum.

After Bonchon here the maps i would nominate (to further discussion):

ABC:

• Stirling's Air Raid
• Stirling's Europe ver3
• Tenchochtitlan
• Blue Lagoon

Out of the Box:

• Stirling's Europe ver3
• Stirling's Air Raid
• Jump Ship Final
• Scary Pirate Island
• Earth

1on1:

• Stirling's Air Raid
• Cross Country Meeting Engagement
• Blue Lagoon
• Ships in the Strait
• Stirling's Europe ver3

Multiplayer:

• Stirlings Europe ver3
• Battle of the Pond
• Tenochtitlan
• Sixually Active
• Snow Flake

Basic Units

• Hostile Shore
• Sixually Active
• Choices
2008-04-06 17:08:58.0

I also like the Open Diamond but can't nominate since I made it.

jeye u should have an invite for the map contest forum

Ytterbium is a pro map (airports)

Oh crap, does it have airports? Basic map is a hard category to pick for - not a lot of choices

how do I see that invite?

Is it allowed to discuss maps here?

Streen i got an email. peter777 i don't see any reason not to discuss maps here.

Right, I got an invite to be mikes friend or something, but I still cant see any forum for us to discuss this ???

u should have recieve another invite to the forum

Basic unit maps can be any map if the pro units are turned off. Harbors and Airfields then become roads. I've got 2 maps with roads. I've also got better maps for 1v1 than Europe v3, but I hear we are only allowed a certain number of entries.

Roads? I thought only pro players could start games on custom maps, anyway?

http://battleground1.weewar.com/map/21730 Mountain Railroads - specially designed for a good friend, including the extra bases in the south.

http://battleground1.weewar.com/map/22801 Tango Charlie - specially designed as a small 1v1 map. No funnel since the middle maintains the hex count of 9 wide. Very quick vehicle reinforcements. Occasional mountains for defense and for infantry to better withstand artillery fire on defense and offense. Deserts to slow infantry down. It plays like a chess board. Incremental lockdown and advancement is difficult but worthwhile. It is not meant to be an aircraft map because the income is too low and aa guns move to fast, therefore the airfields are "roads". It has had some modifications. It's an ok map.

I played Scary Pirate Island. The map looks beautiful, but it has major flaws. The width of the waterhexes in the edges and the bottom is just one field. It is impossible to get past that. Furthermore red is squeezed in between blue and purple and has a disadvantage. It is not balanced enough. I would really like to see that map tweaked, because the looks are great.

I'm kicking myself I didn't participate in the contest - I assumed I wasn't good enough

http://weewar.com/edit/22508

http://weewar.com/edit/22241

http://weewar.com/edit/23190

I should have :@

Same here. I am even on the committee but work deadlines prevented me from making & submitting maps. Well, just keep them, as I am sure we will do this again.

peter777: re: scary pirate island.

I'm glad you like the look of the map and the idea (pirates, ahoy). I've taken a look at the map again after reading your comments and although i see what you're saying with red being sandwiched between the two other players, a good player can easily create a stronghold on his peninsula. The width of the waterhexes acts as both a defensive chokepoint as well as an offensive launching platform. with a wider space there it's harder to blockade against water attacks, making red even harder to defend.

After playing this map (several times) the sad truth is that red actually has a MUCH stronger position than the other two colors due to not only it's location on the map, but also it's base locations, allowing a unified defense. Whereas blue and purple both have some siginifigant supply line problems, red is able to immediately go on the offensive, even against an opponent that has all of the other bases.

As far as the balancing questions, i understand your concern, but i think that it's actually pretty balanced once you get to round 15 and up.

Just thought i'd give some feedback to the feedback.

Thanks again for taking the time to take a look.

hey peter, where has the map gone?

its not in your list

streen: it's in my map list. you can also access it through the wiki.

http://battleground3.weewar.com/map/19852
http://battleground3.weewar.com/map/19971
http://battleground3.weewar.com/map/21401

Pirate Island is not my map.

here's the link streen.

http://battleground2.weewar.com/map/20669

i am with peter777 and alupa regarding Pirate Island

@Alupa: 1 hex wide chokepoints, are such good defensepoints for both sides that thay can NOT serve as an offense launching platform. Map designers should avoid such points at all times. When both sides have a couple of subs laying there, when somebody attacks a sub, you switch it with a fresh one and repair the other. This ends in stalemates at such points. See http://battleground1.weewar.com/game/65047 in the south for an example of that.

If you would change that, it would improve the map dramatically. Just give the map 1 hex more water on all sides for instance...

thanks guys.

agreed with peter, I have seen that problem on many maps.

How is the contest going? I thought there would be a voting starting on monday the 7th? It is the 10th now.

we are behind in organizing the finalist.

again, i hear what you're saying and i understand the concepts laid out in the better map building strategies on the wiki, but i think in this case it's not really that big of a deal and that the board is playable as is. if it doesn't pass the mustard in the custom map contest then i'll revise and resubmit.

word.

I like Stirlings Air Raid http://battleground2.weewar.com/map/22715 because it is a different gameplay then normally, more scenario-like. First it seems as if red will be overrun, but it is difficult for blue to get the two bases quite quickly. And even if it does, the question is whether blue can rally the backland faster then red, because when it has two bases, red still covers 2/3 of that. I have to retry that map a couple of times I think before I now how to do that well. Maybe it is favoring red too much.
Furthermore I would give the (unused parts of the) blue-land some trees and mountains, just for aestetics. The plains look a little bit boring. Or is that the reason why blue attacks red? Maybe give it a lot of desert then.
Anyway, the concept is great and I will be test-playing it some more. I even think map-designers should create more of these scenario-like maps (and playtest them a lot for balancing purposes).

Have a look at this map I'm working on - I expect it'll take a few revisions to get it right because it's pretty crazy:

http://battleground3.weewar.com/edit/23431

Blue starts with NO bases ... and the have to get their only 3 hovercraft that can cap bases safely (preferably) to the island on the far right

No income per base - you start with 8,000 credit and that's it

I dont like the air raid at all. It does not seem balanced to me. (guess what my vote is ). Maybe I should test it....

I like the Gauntlet map.

As for the skull island, one criticism I have (playing is as a user, not as a judge) is that red and purple have 2 bases that reach each other, so conflict early on, while blue just watches it unfold and masses up an army

http://battleground2.weewar.com/game/69225

Check where red & purple got a submarine war going on

NathanaelB: how does red get to the island without hovies?

I have had to tell players what to do and what not to do in Air Raid. The first incarnation of Air Raid was "Air Raid C" and blue could guarantee a victory in Air Raid C. Air Raid D sets it up so that if played right the map devolves into a roughly 50-50 division of all bases. Since so many people have had trouble with the map and haven't been able to do it right on the first try I've thought about creating Air Raid E. It would be a roughly 4 turns after Air Raid D and would give blue some losses, red some losses, and probably start with blue having the 2 northern bases. i.e. just advance the timeline. I thought the plain blue land was a stark contrast to the wonderful red lands. But it would be easy enough to spruce it up a bit.

After playing Air Raid a couple of times, I think blue is destined to win, if it plays right. Blue should avoid the anti-air with the jets and go to the backland asap. It should just sit on any red base or hinder red from capturing them. Red is then not able to AND build  a strong enough army to stop the blue advance, AND capture enough bases to keep pace with blue. So I think it is unbalanced in favor of blue. (Or I am really doing something completly wrong which is always a possibility of course.)

Looking at it, I think as Blue I'd be darting about with the jets trying to kill off Red's troopers, obstruct his capturing, slow him down long enough for my own troopers to push through.

So yeah.. could be tough being Red.

I'll play Air Raid for draw or points against either of you as either color. Hopefully it is for fun and to show what the map can do.

Sorry am I late for map submission? Here's version 1.5.1 of my map that's taken me awhile to develop through play testing up to this point. http://weewar.com/map/23291

hmm.. yeah, definately late for submission.

Sorry for the hold-up. Seems all the judges have a hard time finding time. In fact its more time consuming than anticipated. I took about an hour to come up with a rough list of nominations and categories, and thats without discussing individual maps with fellow judges. Hopefully we'll have something up by this weekend. At least I should find some time.

As for air raid, I really thought that its biased against blue, so I plaid it once against peter777 and me being blue, I defeated him. I gravely underestimated the quality of flyers in this setting. I wasn't fast enough to prevent red from getting base superiority, but then I used jets to block the bases once captured until I could take them over myself.

My final thought is that once players have experience on the pap, after playing it often, then an unbalance is bound to occur, one way or the other, I still think its biased in reds favor, if red knows what hes doing.